Heist 3 ideas

[Soli]

Just wondering if ya'll had any "I wish this was a featured mechanic!" sorta things in mind.
At first I thought multiplayer would be neat, but I think as a main feature, making Heist a rogue-lite makes so much more sense.

The levels don't need to be hand-crafted, and having randomized levels means you can't learn a map by heart, and take extra risks because you know where everything is. You have to get good on the lone premise of being good at the game, and being prepared.

I mean, something like Deep Rock Galactic + Heist would frankly be really cool, without the "dig your own tunnel" mechanic, that is. Just spelunking underground until you call for extract.
I can even imagine it being a hit with mobile devices, frankly I am uncertain why they didn't went with that model for Heist 2.

What did ya'll have in mind?

[Meng]

I'd disagree with making heist a rogue-lite,

But I think a DRG style 'deep dive'/'push your luck' style dungeon for each zone would make a lot of sense. Randomized level and enemies, higher xp/loot, then when you finish the level you can go into a harder one or escape back to the ship and keep what you have collected

[Soli]

Originally posted by Meng:

I'd disagree with making heist a rogue-lite,

But I think a DRG style 'deep dive'/'push your luck' style dungeon for each zone would make a lot of sense. Randomized level and enemies, higher xp/loot, then when you finish the level you can go into a harder one or escape back to the ship and keep what you have collected

Well, that's essentially what I had in mind. I guess "rogute-lite" can also mean: "You do not carry anything between runs, or you unlock very little".

Well, yeah, no. What you said is more in line with what I was thinking of.

[Spimmy]

with today's news its unlikely to be made. It should of been Dig 3 not heist 2 they should of stuck with the golden child

[Soli]

Originally posted by Spimmy:

with today's news its unlikely to be made. It should of been Dig 3 not heist 2 they should of stuck with the golden child

What news?
And I'm happy they made Heist 2, that's why I bought it...I wanted more of Heist lol.
I'm just surprised with the way they made Heist 2, I think they had better ways to go about it, but I still think it's a good game (and hella long, too.)

[Spimmy]

mass layoffs

[Mr. Lambert]

There's not going to be a Heist 3. Heist 2 bombed, and it may end up killing the developer/publisher. They've already announced they've pretty much abandoned 1st party development along with a second recent major round of job cuts:
https://thunderfulgroup.com/news-room/press-releases/2024-11-14-thunderful-group-implements-strategic-restructuring-program-doubling-down-on-third-party-game-publishing-and-scaling-back-internal-development-resulting-in-write-downs-of-220-240-msek
Last earnings report showing huge losses blamed on SH2 sales (somehow they managed to lose -69 million SEK on 74 million SEK of sales, making for a -93% profit margin):
"In August, we launched SteamWorld Heist II on PC, Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox. Despite receiving critical acclaim, with an average Metacritic score above 80 and 96% positive reviews on Steam, we have faced challenges in re-engaging players who enjoyed the first game."
https://storage.mfn.se/a139a379-5f82-4c06-9ae5-c406dd5deea8/thunderful-group-interim-report-q3-2024.pdf

[Soli]

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

There's not going to be a Heist 3. Heist 2 bombed, and it may end up killing the developer/publisher. They've already announced they've pretty much abandoned 1st party development along with a second recent major round of job cuts:
https://thunderfulgroup.com/news-room/press-releases/2024-11-14-thunderful-group-implements-strategic-restructuring-program-doubling-down-on-third-party-game-publishing-and-scaling-back-internal-development-resulting-in-write-downs-of-220-240-msek
Last earnings report showing huge losses blamed on SH2 sales (somehow they managed to lose -69 million SEK on 74 million SEK of sales, making for a -93% profit margin):
"In August, we launched SteamWorld Heist II on PC, Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox. Despite receiving critical acclaim, with an average Metacritic score above 80 and 96% positive reviews on Steam, we have faced challenges in re-engaging players who enjoyed the first game."
https://storage.mfn.se/a139a379-5f82-4c06-9ae5-c406dd5deea8/thunderful-group-interim-report-q3-2024.pdf

Well, that's disheartening.
But -- there's no way in hell Heist 2 cost them 70 million SEK, which is around $6m...I'm not up to speed with all of the finance lingo, so I can't read into these articles and properly comment on the matter. It's just common sense that this one game could not have butchered this Studio + Publisher group.

I mean, one of the reasons they cite that they lost money, is "high marketing costs"...Marketing of what?
This is a large ass company, and it seems they fumbled with a few things, and I guess Heist 2's relatively low sales didn't help.

[Mr. Lambert]

I don't think $6M would be a lot of money at all for a midsized AA'ish publisher like Thunderful, especially when you also consider marketing costs and look at how much money Thunderful has been spending on marketing in their earnings report and consider that SH2 is the only new game they've launched recently. AAA games are running $50M+ minimum just for development these days. I wouldn't be surprised at something more like at least $20M being more in the ballpark considering development, marketing, and just ongoing costs for maintaining the day to day operations of the internal studio. They spent 64 million SEK in the third quarter on "Personnel expenses," I'd assume a big chunk of which was paying people at whatever they are internally calling the former Image & Form now.

[Soli]

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

I don't think $6M would be a lot of money at all for a midsized AA'ish publisher like Thunderful, especially when you also consider marketing costs and look at how much money Thunderful has been spending on marketing in their earnings report and consider that SH2 is the only new game they've launched recently. AAA games are running $50M+ minimum just for development these days. I wouldn't be surprised at something more like at least $20M being more in the ballpark considering development, marketing, and just ongoing costs for maintaining the day to day operations of the internal studio. They spent 64 million SEK in the third quarter on "Personnel expenses," I'd assume a big chunk of which was paying people at whatever they are internally calling the former Image & Form now.

I'm saying Heist 2 is not a $6m video game, and it's not AAA either.
Spending that much money on a relatively niche game would indeed be financial suicide.

[Cerbrosyn]

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

There's not going to be a Heist 3. Heist 2 bombed, and it may end up killing the developer/publisher. They've already announced they've pretty much abandoned 1st party development along with a second recent major round of job cuts:
https://thunderfulgroup.com/news-room/press-releases/2024-11-14-thunderful-group-implements-strategic-restructuring-program-doubling-down-on-third-party-game-publishing-and-scaling-back-internal-development-resulting-in-write-downs-of-220-240-msek
Last earnings report showing huge losses blamed on SH2 sales (somehow they managed to lose -69 million SEK on 74 million SEK of sales, making for a -93% profit margin):
"In August, we launched SteamWorld Heist II on PC, Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox. Despite receiving critical acclaim, with an average Metacritic score above 80 and 96% positive reviews on Steam, we have faced challenges in re-engaging players who enjoyed the first game."
https://storage.mfn.se/a139a379-5f82-4c06-9ae5-c406dd5deea8/thunderful-group-interim-report-q3-2024.pdf

Dammit, that's sad. I thought everything was alright with this game?

[Soli]

Originally posted by Cerbrosyn:

Dammit, that's sad. I thought everything was alright with this game?

It's a very much generic statement to make by a corporation: "We didn't reach targeted sales..."
Even if they made record profit, they'd still say that. Because it wasn't super-mega-ultra record profit. Just some profit.

What they mean is -- the overall company, with all of its arms and legs, is losing money. So they started cutting whatever they can, and only maintain whatever is considered "safe".

And Steamworld is probably not the safest bet.

[New Age Retro Frank]

Terrible news! I adore this game

[doctor_turbo]

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

There's not going to be a Heist 3. Heist 2 bombed, and it may end up killing the developer/publisher. They've already announced they've pretty much abandoned 1st party development along with a second recent major round of job cuts:
https://thunderfulgroup.com/news-room/press-releases/2024-11-14-thunderful-group-implements-strategic-restructuring-program-doubling-down-on-third-party-game-publishing-and-scaling-back-internal-development-resulting-in-write-downs-of-220-240-msek
Last earnings report showing huge losses blamed on SH2 sales (somehow they managed to lose -69 million SEK on 74 million SEK of sales, making for a -93% profit margin):
"In August, we launched SteamWorld Heist II on PC, Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox. Despite receiving critical acclaim, with an average Metacritic score above 80 and 96% positive reviews on Steam, we have faced challenges in re-engaging players who enjoyed the first game."
https://storage.mfn.se/a139a379-5f82-4c06-9ae5-c406dd5deea8/thunderful-group-interim-report-q3-2024.pdf

I appreciate you posting this information, but where do they use the language that SH2 “bombed” and where do they claim their company is going under specifically to SH2? All I see is they have negative cash flow and have for some time, independent of SH2 sales. Sounds like they were already planning downsizing and changes to the company strategy prior to SH2 even releasing.

They did say that they faced challenges capturing the SH1 audience with this game, and according to steam sales it does seem this game wasn’t that successful. They seem to blame that on marketing, and they even detailed a new marketing plan to specifically target fans of their games.

I agree that SH3 seems unlikely at this point due to the downsizing and lukewarm sales or SH2, but your claims don’t seem to be accurate when you claim SH2 single handedly ruined the company.

[Mr. Lambert]

Originally posted by doctor_turbo:

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

There's not going to be a Heist 3. Heist 2 bombed, and it may end up killing the developer/publisher. They've already announced they've pretty much abandoned 1st party development along with a second recent major round of job cuts:
https://thunderfulgroup.com/news-room/press-releases/2024-11-14-thunderful-group-implements-strategic-restructuring-program-doubling-down-on-third-party-game-publishing-and-scaling-back-internal-development-resulting-in-write-downs-of-220-240-msek
Last earnings report showing huge losses blamed on SH2 sales (somehow they managed to lose -69 million SEK on 74 million SEK of sales, making for a -93% profit margin):
"In August, we launched SteamWorld Heist II on PC, Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox. Despite receiving critical acclaim, with an average Metacritic score above 80 and 96% positive reviews on Steam, we have faced challenges in re-engaging players who enjoyed the first game."
https://storage.mfn.se/a139a379-5f82-4c06-9ae5-c406dd5deea8/thunderful-group-interim-report-q3-2024.pdf

I appreciate you posting this information, but where do they use the language that SH2 “bombed” and where do they claim their company is going under specifically to SH2? All I see is they have negative cash flow and have for some time, independent of SH2 sales. Sounds like they were already planning downsizing and changes to the company strategy prior to SH2 even releasing.

They did say that they faced challenges capturing the SH1 audience with this game, and according to steam sales it does seem this game wasn’t that successful. They seem to blame that on marketing, and they even detailed a new marketing plan to specifically target fans of their games.

I agree that SH3 seems unlikely at this point due to the downsizing and lukewarm sales or SH2, but your claims don’t seem to be accurate when you claim SH2 single handedly ruined the company.

It was the only major game they released last year. In 2023 they were flush with cash, buying up studios left and right, talking a big game about how fast they were expanding and how many games they were going to make. By the end of 2024 they were in serious financial distress. SH2 is the cause of the collapse. Just this week Thunderful said they're shutting down Studio FIzbin as soon as they release their upcoming game in a couple weeks -- a studio they bought only in 2023!

https://thunderfulgames.com/an-update-on-studio-fizbin/

[doctor_turbo]

Originally posted by Mr. Lambert:

Originally posted by doctor_turbo:

I appreciate you posting this information, but where do they use the language that SH2 “bombed” and where do they claim their company is going under specifically to SH2? All I see is they have negative cash flow and have for some time, independent of SH2 sales. Sounds like they were already planning downsizing and changes to the company strategy prior to SH2 even releasing.

They did say that they faced challenges capturing the SH1 audience with this game, and according to steam sales it does seem this game wasn’t that successful. They seem to blame that on marketing, and they even detailed a new marketing plan to specifically target fans of their games.

I agree that SH3 seems unlikely at this point due to the downsizing and lukewarm sales or SH2, but your claims don’t seem to be accurate when you claim SH2 single handedly ruined the company.

It was the only major game they released last year. In 2023 they were flush with cash, buying up studios left and right, talking a big game about how fast they were expanding and how many games they were going to make. By the end of 2024 they were in serious financial distress. SH2 is the cause of the collapse. Just this week Thunderful said they're shutting down Studio FIzbin as soon as they release their upcoming game in a couple weeks -- a studio they bought only in 2023!

https://thunderfulgames.com/an-update-on-studio-fizbin/

Sounds more like they flew too close to the sun and all do there extra endeavors like buying up other studios didn’t work out for them. I find it hard to believe that disappointing sales on one game would kill the entire studio. And once again, they never said that, you did.

Also I’m not really sure how much of a “bomb” this game could be considered. It sold 50,000 units on steam for a revenue of 1.5 million. The sales figures for switch, Xbox, and PS aren’t available but I can only assume all 3 together sold at least 50,000 as well. That’s $3 million in revenue and 100,000 units sold which is generally considered successful for an indie game. But I also have no idea what the actual total sales figures are, how much the game cost to produce, and what the expectation of sales were in the first place. It’s highly possible that SH2 sold decently, they’re in the green on total investment for the game, but they still consider it a disappointment due to sales falling short of what they expected.