Why is this game extremely underrated and underappreciated?

[Chill Okami]

Why isn't this game getting more love? Why are people saying it's trash when it's clearly not? Is it because of nostalgia?

I've never played the older Thief games, I've watched their reviews and looked at the game play and for that time, they do look and feel like masterpieces, pushing the stealth genre forward, pretty much like Half life, Doom, Quake pushed the FPS genre forward. And that was back in 1998, a very long time has passed when it comes to technology. To me, now, the older games feel very dated and from what I saw, I would not enjoy them much. I will play Thief 3 because it's the most advanced of those old ones but the first 2 just look very clunky to me when it comes to their game play. In Thief 1 for example, while watching the game play, it made my eyes sore because of the character models, they just look like ugly block people or monsters and are poorly animated.

Fast forward to Thief 4, the game was different but in a really good way. It felt more like Dishonored, which I really really liked. And the Stealth system is amazing, it has a really nice flow when you're dashing from shadow to shadow, sneaking around, using the tools you have to create an advantage and an opportunity. The City is massive albeit convoluted (until you get the hang of it), the dark Gothic aesthetic is really appealing to me. The story and the horror aspects of it, I personally found to be very intriguing and it kept me wondering "What's next?" in this Fantasy Steampunk Gothic universe. The voice of Garret also, I found to be great in both the reboot and the older games, it sounds very similar but I liked the new voice actor more. But maybe that's my cup of tea?

I see people call Thief 4 "utter garbage" or "abomination", etc. And compare it to the older games, saying how the older games are better in every way, shape or form. And I highly disagree with that. I think that people need to take their nostalgia goggles off and give this game a try, it's a very good game with a really good story. It's not perfect, I've encountered flaws (audio tends to be weird at times) and some performance hick ups but everything else is great. Loading screen weren't an issue at all because I have an SSD and I actually like that stealing in the game is animated, it's done in a really good way. I'd give it a 9/10.

[Laicus]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zytel:

They instead spin around in place. I've seen it.

I've completed the game many times and never seen it.

[Guardian Hero]

It is EXTREMELY underrated.
I played all Thief games, with mods, etc, and yes, they're great and Thief 4 doesn't do anything better, but it's still great.
Nowadays, not only you shouldn't trust "gaming journalists" anymore, I think you shouldn't trust "user reviews" either, which are mostly bull****.

1) Some people write reviews after playing it 10 minutes
2) Some just love to repeat what everybody else is saying cos they enjoy being part of the herd
3) Some are way overly nostalgic (I'm one of them but I can be objective sometimes)
4) Some are just... incredibly dumb and have no idea what they're talking about.

Only 5% of reviews are worth something, and that goes for ALL games on Steam.

If I had to rate them on 100...
Thief 1: 70-75% (slightly overrated, not as great as what people make it out to be.)
Thief 2: 95-100% (it's really perfect for what it does)
Thief 3: 80% (that one too was underrated. But the hub system was annoying.)
Thief 4: 85% (vastly underrated considering how badly it bombed.)

[N o i r]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlexEnchantedCastle:

It is EXTREMELY underrated.

I played all Thief games, most of them at launch. "thi4f" is crap, unworthy of bearing the name of this franchise.

Giving thief 4 a higher score than 1 and 3 is preposterous.

[ElfPrince1937]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von N o i r:

I played all Thief games, most of them at launch. "thi4f" is crap, unworthy of bearing the name of this franchise.

Purist detected.

I also played all the other games in the series. Thief 4 is absolutely an amazing follow-up to the others, reusing the hub and "visible hands and feet" from Deadly Shadows, but with the properly-applied stealth mechanics of Metal Age and the original.

[Bankai9212]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Darkgamester301:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von N o i r:

I played all Thief games, most of them at launch. "thi4f" is crap, unworthy of bearing the name of this franchise.

Purist detected.

I also played all the other games in the series. Thief 4 is absolutely an amazing follow-up to the others, reusing the hub and "visible hands and feet" from Deadly Shadows, but with the properly-applied stealth mechanics of Metal Age and the original.

With a weaker narrative and level design, playing it without thinking its a thief game its just decent to average stealth game.

[Bankai9212]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlexEnchantedCastle:

It is EXTREMELY underrated.
I played all Thief games, with mods, etc, and yes, they're great and Thief 4 doesn't do anything better, but it's still great.
Nowadays, not only you shouldn't trust "gaming journalists" anymore, I think you shouldn't trust "user reviews" either, which are mostly bull****.

1) Some people write reviews after playing it 10 minutes
2) Some just love to repeat what everybody else is saying cos they enjoy being part of the herd
3) Some are way overly nostalgic (I'm one of them but I can be objective sometimes)
4) Some are just... incredibly dumb and have no idea what they're talking about.

Only 5% of reviews are worth something, and that goes for ALL games on Steam.

If I had to rate them on 100...
Thief 1: 70-75% (slightly overrated, not as great as what people make it out to be.)
Thief 2: 95-100% (it's really perfect for what it does)
Thief 3: 80% (that one too was underrated. But the hub system was annoying.)
Thief 4: 85% (vastly underrated considering how badly it bombed.)

1) You have evidence to back that up
2)Which things are repeated and are they legit critiques
3)Nostalgia has nothing to do with this games short comings even if it wasn't associated with thief
4)Care to elaborate

As for the 5% I guess that goes for your's also so why give scores for the series? Thief gold has great levels although it only became a stealth game near its release, still for first person stealth game it nailed it. The reboot does nothing to improve past games and it wasn't a bomb it was and still is an average game. With its release under square it was never going to sell enough.

[ElfPrince1937]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bankai9212:

With a weaker narrative

...you mean the actually-coherent story and plot involving the Primal, which is by far less disjointed than the Metal Age or Dark Project, both of which wait until about the halfway point to even introduce the main villains and plots?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bankai9212:

and level design

"Multiple paths and approaches can be taken to reach your objective" is considered "weak"?

Don't tell Dishonored that.

If anything, the reboot is even less linear per level than its predecessors, which I count as a plus.

[ElfPrince1937]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bankai9212:

The reboot does nothing to improve past games

Right, we'll just ignore:

* The coherent plotline, lore, worldbuilding, and characters
* The emphasis on class division and political warfare in said plot, which is something you'd expect from a game set in a pseudo-Victorian era
* The improved enemy AI
* The Focus mechanic giving you cool new abilities to better enhance your thievery
* The sheer cinematic and fluid feel of movement, in everything from walking across a narrow wooden beam to leaping between rooftops.

Also, that last one is important to note, given that it's almost completely absent from virtually every previous Thief title.

Period.

Which is ironic, because...well, Garrett is a thief.

Sadly, the system limitations of the time basically meant that every other level in Gold, Metal Age, and Deadly Shadows basically came down to the stealth mechanics of "hide in shadows or behind giant crates, etc." Pretty much the only level to feature rooftop running is the original "Thieves' Highway" area in Metal Age leading up to Angelwatch, and even that kept it to a minimum (due, again, to system limitations).

Every other level? Garrett is out on the streets at ground level, which feels rather limiting for someone of his supposed skill.

Not to mention that Deadly Shadows kept it even more "horizontal," removing the use of Rope Arrows completely.

Meanwhile, in this game you feel that much more in control as a master thief--you can literally leap across rooftops in the dead of night, spy on guards patrolling the streets far below...there's so much more verticality going on here.

That is very much an improvement, and you'd have to be willfully blinding yourself to ignore that it is.

[N o i r]

No level of this game, absolutely none, gave me the same feelings that the first mission of Thief 1 - stealing the sceptre from Lord Bafford's.

AFAIK, this game absolutely fails at core gameplay. It's just so easy...

EDIT: it almost feels on rails. There is no freedom of exploration, no challenge...

[Powellinho.72]

heres my opinion that never played the OG games. This game is just ALRIGHT. the dash mechanic not really a fan of it. Sometimes the AI see's you when it shouldnt and other times it dosent when it should. not consistent enough. Calling it trash is totally wrong.

[ElfPrince1937]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von N o i r:

No level of this game, absolutely none, gave me the same feelings that the first mission of Thief 1 - stealing the sceptre from Lord Bafford's.

Different stokes; that was honestly one of the more forgettable levels, imo.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von N o i r:

AFAIK, this game absolutely fails at core gameplay. It's just so easy...

EDIT: it almost feels on rails. There is no freedom of exploration, no challenge...

looks at Moira Asylum being a perfectly-faithful recreation of Shalebridge Cradle, but 100 times more terrifying.

looks at Northcrest Manor being a gigantic playground of exploration, with two possible points of entry and many, many, many different rooms to loot long before nearing your objective

If you say so.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Powellinho.72:

Calling it trash is totally wrong.

There may or may not be some bias on the parts of people who have played the original games (and apparently consider them "perfection") and find virtually nothing redeeming about this one.

For my part, I've played all three of the originals, and I love this game just as equally.

[N o i r]

Forgettable? In terms of story, yes; but it had what Thief embodied (for me): exploration, fear, many different ways to reach your objective, long paths from NPCs that could end up coming at you from many directions, loot placement that made sense, reasonable difficulty.
Northcrest Manor doesn't come close to that experience.

Moira Asylum was very well done in terms of atmosphere, but it was still too linear, and too easy.

[ElfPrince1937]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von N o i r:

Moira Asylum was very well done in terms of atmosphere, but it was still too linear, and too easy.

I mean, it was done mostly for story purposes--Garrett is there for information purposes, after all--but yes: the atmosphere absolutely recreated the horrors of Shalebridge, imo.

And that kind of atmosphere is important for a Thief game, after levels like the Bonehoard, Sealed Section, Constantine's Mansion, and the Maw (Gold) or Soulforge Cathedral (Metal Age).

There's definitely a lot of great Gothic-horror atmosphere to be found in this game.

[N o i r]

I can concede on that, yes - they nailed the atmosphere in this game. Alas, this is not a sufficient condition for me to enjoy a Thief game.

[ElfPrince1937]

Fair; for me, the atmosphere was a huge factor for why I enjoyed all the original games, so agree to disagree, I guess.