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I realize you guys are talking about decidedly non-Thief games, but this exchange actually made me think about this topic and the evolution of the Thief games themselves.
Because if you've played all four games, from Gold all the way up to this game, you know that the very first game...actually didn't have much of an overarching plot, at least not from the beginning. Ditto Metal Age: the first 3-5 missions or so of each are essentially, "Garrett the sneaky thief does sneaky thief things." It's not really until the original games' halfway points or so that the main plots take hold involving Constantine and Karas, respectively.
With Deadly Shadows, you get more of the story earlier on with the Keepers, which makes it more interesting after all the buildup of the previous two games. And for better or worse, the newest game does seem to follow that formula of establishing a coherent narrative even alongside "Garrett the thief doing thievery."
Personal opinion, but I do think that's one thing this game vastly improved on, the story-telling aspect.
They even added in additional levels to the original version of the first game, Dark Project,, and renamed it as Gold in order to better tell the story of Constantine/the Trickster.
Comparatively, it was, but you still have some side-content levels that don't really have anything to do with the Mechanists plotwise, outside of world-building (like the dockside warehouse, helping Basso at the beginning, etc.).
How so? Much of Deadly Shadows' narrative is literally all about the Keeper Order; if anything, I would argue that out of the initial three games, it probably has the most emphasis on coherent storytelling.
Especially when you can clearly see Shadows' influence on this game, both in terms of plot and especially in the Moira Asylum level being a very clear throwback to Shalebridge Cradle.
Ok? How does that prove that "deadly shadows just retreaded alot of dark projects narrative"?
At the end of Metal Age, Karas mentions how he's the one who designed Garrett's Metal Eye, during Garrett's brief alliance with the Hammerites back in the final levels of the original game.
Referencing previous titles like that isn't "retreading old material," it's tying the material together into one overarching plot.
That's how storytelling works.
Agree to disagree; all you have to do is play the reboot to see that it very much does focus more attention on an actual story narrative, with both the Primal and the Graven revolution, than the earlier three games. The fact that they even included a graphic novel to help supplement the events of the game very much alludes to this.
Probably the closest we ever got to the latter was what we see with the Hammerites slaughtering the Pagans in The Metal Age, but even that plotline got dropped pretty quickly. This game at least better emphasizes the whole "Victoria Era" feel with the very clear emphasis on class warfare and social upheaval.
Metal age Basso is just a tutorial, docks is just Garret making rent but you see what the mechanists are doing, after the plot starts up.
Deadly shadows pulls the whole villian is in plain sight like the trickster. Difference is the Hag is only mention at shalebridge level which is very late in the game. While trickster was always being mentioned throughout thief gold.
The narrative is all over the place in the reboot. The fact that the chicks who’s name I forget is a plot point is an issue. Garret seems to care but we the player are never given a reason as to why.Half the narrative is Garret trying to remember what happen the past year which is never resolved. With the villains wanting the primal for some sort of energy source.
Ah, I see; I had it backwards, then.
I don't know if you necessarily "see what the Mechanists are doing" at the docks; at most, you overhear the one conversation from the Hammerite re: his order becoming extremist (the Mechanists) and then another guard lamenting just how overly-industrialized the City is becoming.
I do agree that this is where the Mechanists first start getting introduced, but I feel like they could have used a little exposition, given their role in the game.
That's actually not entirely accurate; there are hints throughout Deadly Shadows about "the Hag" and people's flesh being torn off in the streets. Garrett can even overhear some civilians talking about this, I believe.
Re: the "Villain in Plain Sight" trope, I feel like it still works in Deadly Shadows, though, because the whole thing revolves around the Keeper Order going the route of Star Wars' Jedi and becoming (morally) corrupt and bureaucratic. The whole point is that this is all leading up to their downfall as a (politically) influential organization, and they brought it all on themselves.
Even the explanation behind the Final Glyph plays into this, about how the first Keepers set it up as a failsafe for this very reason.
I mean, it's pretty fairly-established in the opening level that Erin was Garrett's apprentice once upon a time, but the two had a falling-out once she started murdering guards rather than just stealing from them.
This is expanded on in the graphic novel, but you don't even need to have read that to learn this; it's literally incorporated into the tutorial level, with Garrett reprimanding Erin on "killing without thought or good reason."
It also gives insight into this incarnation of Garrett, giving him a sort of "honor code" of morality, which I found interesting (again, personal opinion).
This kind of statement tells me you never actually bothered to finish the game.
But then again, so does your profile.
Had you actually bothered to finish the last two chapters, you would know that the narrative is very much resolved...and actually, it's even resolved after Garrett visits the asylum and then revisits the Baron's mansion; those entire two levels are about him putting the pieces together and getting answers as to what happened.
As for the Primal, the Baron himself very much expands on what sort of energy it is, even if the player doesn't pick up the (many) files throughout Chapter 6 alluding to its true nature.
Heck, even one of the earlier chapters more or less throws it in your face that the Primal is essentially the Glyph magic from the initial three games.
So, yeah...sorry to bring it out into the light here (but not really), but this game very much does have a coherent narrative, and even one that links it to its predecessors.
You willfully ignoring it doesn't change that fact.
They still steered that into a more stealth-y direction during what seemed a troubled and confused production. But that wasn't the only thing that Thief still is about. It's about providing a virtual-reality kind of experience, full of player agency and expression -- like any Looking Glass first person 3d game, starting with Underworld. Thief 2014 tries to be a typical loud and flashy generic cinematic blockbuster stealth action game. Gone are levels as sandboxes, in come levels as linear stealth arenas, so you trigger all the cutscenes advancing the game -- now directly interrupting gameplay to the degree that you may even get caught as a cutscene demands it. And of course every action being contextual, from jumping to rope laddering to anything.
The thing is: Actually many developers think cinematic storytelling would be inherently more advanced compared to what LGS were trying to do back then. They are seriously of the opinion that this would be all just "nostalgia". Not some dated mechanics or AI -- no, the entire package, it's all nostalgia. If only Arkane had made it back then... which is where Thief fans went to anyway (and even Thief fan mission designers / community members on the development level), even though Dishonored isn't a pure stealth game. Couple that with this reboot failing to attract new players as well, and bingo. But hey, at least it looks pretty nice -- the most important thing for blockbuster studios anyway.
Perfect example of how to not handle a reboot. Imagine somebody looking over Naughty Dog's catalogue in twenty years and reimagining Uncharted as a System Shock like experience, devoid of any cinematic action. Even if the end product was actually a great and focused experience after a less troubled production: That will go down well with fans for sure.
That's the issue with console games in general,story is too much conveyed in cut scenes and not as worldbuilding and part of gameplay. It's a big reason i dislike most console games, it breaks immersion. I'm not watching a movie here, I'm playing a game.
This is what Thief did well, create the story within the gameplay not cut scenes, it's not gaming and it should be used sparingly to establish context for instance
Because as Bankai pointed out, even the original Thief had cutscenes. You have to have them for the big, important stuff, scenes like Constantine being revealed as the Trickster and betraying Garret.
It ultimately comes down to what's appropriate for the setting and context at the time. I will say the reboot does have some worldbuilding story elements in its own right, for example Garret finally entering the study of Eastwick's house only to find the Grand Inventor dead by suicide and especially the entirety of the House of Blossoms and the caverns below being revealed to have once been the old Keeper Library. Granted, the older games did more on the worldbuilding side due to technical limitations, but we do still have some worldbuilding elements in the reboot, as well.
For storytelling purposes, I definitely agree on the old "Show, don't Tell" rule, but when you are telling a story, sometimes you do need a more in-depth scene of narrative to do so.