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If you were complaining about 10 minute loading times (which isn't true) and not seeing the point of an optional level of control over objects (yeah, it's probably pointless for apples, but it's nice for picking up and replacing things you accidently knocked over, or tipping candles over to light torches, etc), then it's no wonder they didn't take the critique well. Though why the reactions of the dev team should have any impact on your enjoyment of a game is beyond me.
And what exactly is useless about the light gem? It's a heck of a lot better than the one in nuThief.
It's fine you didn't like it, but it won PC Gamer's mod of the year award, so obviously it's high quality, not just a "demo".
Dishonored is not a stealth game. Blink is so broken you dont even need to stealth.
I also dont get what you say about Thiefs hub. There are short loading screens in between but overall its a lot bigger than the third games hub for example, filled with way more NPCs and dialogue. Also, it IS possible to revisit chapters, you just need to get to the place where you startet the missions and you can play through the entire level again.
The hub is also filled with 2 lengthy side plots and a ton of smaller missions (some of them quite tricky).
Guess its just the usual nostalgia that makes people hate Thief 4. Apart from the obvious audio issues, the poor optimization (that only matters when you have crap hardware anyway) and the quite tedious QTEs its one of the best stealth games of recent time.
+1..yep
You're absolutely correct - it was pulled apart.
The development was started YEARS back - at a time when a sequel to the third installment Thief Deadly Shadows was viable. It was named "Thi4f" in forums. Years and years went by. Fans kept the forums alive speculating about what might come, expressing hope on where the story might go, but from Eidos there was just silence and that working title. It wasn't until 2009 that the title was finally unveiled as being worked on (still as a sequel). But too many years lay between the previous and this new game, and the sequel tag was dropped. People tend not to be so keen to buy a sequel to a franchise that they've never played, and the first Thief was really now too old to be very enjoyable for a new audience. The game had to be stand-alone, playable without the previous titles. The '4' in the working title vanished, and the game was spoken of as a reboot instead.
After Dishonored was released, we got to see some beautiful screens of a game that had the same visual appeal as Dishonored. Fans were thrilled to see their beloved franchise hadn't died after all. It looked absolutely gorgeous. But as the game began to take shape and fans were given first glimpses, they were pretty enraged. Not only were they angry that the original voice actor had been replaced, sapping Garrett's personality at the same time (fans of Jennifer Hale's acting in Mass Effect will understand), but this new game was brimming full of action cut-scenes and quick-time-events! This was not Thief - a game of stealth, patience and strategy. It was an FPS with arrows! Square Enix went back to the drawing board. They knew they had it wrong and many, many sequences were pulled (though the new voice actor was retained).
Cut to final release. You have a game that claims to be a reboot but which contains none of the original story. The fascinating factions that were behind all the plot twists and turns have gone. Garrett remains alive, but the story is several hundred years LATER than the previous instalment (the monument date outside the Moira Asylum gives Thief 3's Moira's death many hundreds of years back). So this new Garrett must be several grand-sons ahead of old Garrett! Then there is Erin - a girl given NO backstory but is just there. I imagine she was meant to be the little orphan who Garrett catches pickpocketing him at the end of Thief 3 when this game was first conceptualised. And it all results in a story that isn't a story at all, it makes NO sense, there are characters who are never fully explained or developed because their story arcs were probably yanked (lie the Thief-Taker General who is there merely to add an unbefitting boss-battle to a game that never needed boss battles) and players are left feeling a bit puzzled about what they're doing and why. It's a complete muddle of a game that really has had a checkered development past.
I think Eidos Montreal did their best and have given the game some brilliant stealth mechanics and settings that are truly interesting and vast, but perhaps pandered a little too much to the crowds who like polished cinematics and gung-ho action in their games. Most of all, the point of being a thief has been watered-down to making sets of collectibles and so the need to steal has been removed. Playing a thief who doesn't need to be a thief is not as much fun. I know what I've said reads a little harsh, but I do actually like the game. For anyone thinking of buying the game who is new to the genre: you'll get a good game but bear in mind it's a strategy rather than action game. For people who played the originals, try to erase these from your mind and play this as an unrelated stealth game.
While I loved Dishonored and its open, sandbox-like levels (played through it multiple times) there is no way you can call it a stealth game. Look at the tools Thief 3 gave you to avoid your enemies, now back to Dishonored. Let's see, you can choke-out people, possess them or tranquilize them. That's 3 options for stealth. 2 of which you can't use if you want to play the game as a ghost. (Im not going to count blink here because it's so utterly broken that it makes stealth AND combat obsolete). On the other hand you have razor mines, man eating rat swarms, a gun and a crossbow with explosive bolts.
Let's face it, Dishonored wasn't designed with stealth in mind. It's just one option of many. While Thief discourages open combat, Dishonored encourages it by giving the player a wide variety of loud and deadly weapons and powers he can combo together.
"small closed segments that make game badly linear and limited"
The game is not more or less linear than Deadly Shadows. In fact, the hub area is much larger.
"it is divided into small parts that once you get through, you cant go back to them. "
As I explained, you can go back to any previously visited location.
"hub areas are just empty tunnels leading from point A to B."
The hub is hardly tunnel like, when you have plenty of freedom. I'd also not call it empty, since it has more NPCs, more dialogues, and more side objectives than Deadly Shadows. Guess your definiton of "empty" is not the same as mine.
" if there is any elaborate AI inside, there just isnt enough room to expose it and play with it."
I agree with you on that one. Then again, I have never seen a stealth game that truly impressed me with its AI. Pulling off good AI requires levels specifically designed to work with the AI. Thief never did something like this. Neither did Dishonored. The only good AI I remember was the one from the original F.E.A.R. and maybe Rage - and even those appear more intelligent than they actually are. Not to mention that designing AI for a corridor shooter is a lot less difficult than designing good AI for stealth games.
"it is just cheaper and faster to make many linear segments, than one seamless sophisticated environment"
While the game does have scripted sequences, they don't last very long and until now I have only encountered two of them. For every mission that is more linear, there is one that gives you the freedom aproach it the way you want. And let's not forget that even Thief 3 had linear parts. People tend to remember only the good stuff from their favourite games.
Also, as I posted in another thread, I can't take people seriously when they call Dishonored an excellent stealth game. Thief always discouraged players from taking the combat route (by making combat very hard to pull of and also quite expensive), while Dishonored actually encourages combat/killing-focused gameplay by handing you out a loud and deadly arsenal of tools and powers. If you play Dishonored in a non-lethal way you are stuck with one weapon (crossbows tranquilizer darts) and 3 powers at most (possession, time slowdown and blink). Every other ability and weapon in Dishonored is meant for either silent killing or flat out open combat.
Maybe I should just write this stuff down in a review, instead of arguing about it on the forums. It's not like I'm going to convince anyone into liking the game.
Still, I can't relate to all the people nagging about the game. As someone who played quite a lot of Deadly Shadows and Dishonored, I'm having a really good time with Thief.
The first is the most obvious - these games are selling. Yearly franchises with substance changes that amount to what used to be a map pack will sell better than anything else on the market. Call of Duty breaks sales records year after year, with no signs of slowing even as the game industry's dissatisfaction gets louder. Some of this has to do with demand - people actually want these sequels. I'm guilty of it as well - I'm dying for the new inFamous game, as I am dying for Ratchet and Clank games.
There are a few benefits, as well. Take Wolfenstein: The New Order, for example - this is a game set out to make a good, well-realized single-player campaign in a genre that hasn't seen one in a while. Despite changing the main character's behavior, most of the enemies, and even the setting, the New Order is still a kick-ass Wolfenstein game. Sure, many of the weird little secrets are gone, but hunting secrets in Wolfenstein 3D sucked hard - you just hit the "open" button on every surface, hoping it might do something. Trading this for subtle hints and weird objects that don't seem to quite "fit" in the level is a welcome change. Setting-appropriate hint systems are helpful too - a combination lock is presented and the combination is written on a wall... in German, naturally.
Why change a game like Thief? First off, the games, while they did well for their time, weren't blockbusters. They did not and do not have the kind of mass appeal to make a AAA budget worthwhile. In order to get the game greenlit, changes were going to be made.
Thief also had a few things that weren't necessary or vital to gameplay, or made the game unnecessarily difficult for newcomers. It's true, it gave you the feel and consequence of being a Thief - but I'm not a thief. I'm, in fact, quite terrible at all things stealth related. Basically, the game (for me) was an exercise in save scumming. Thief gave you no chance to really "learn" the way things were going to work, because the save system (or lack thereof) was pretty punishing.
I'm not going to ever say that the old Thief was bad, but I can honestly say I never felt compelled to keep going, and was never really interested in what was happening in the game world. I was too busy battling the awkwardness of everything to really get good at it, and that's not something I can say of a franchise I feel is worth investing time in.
I'm not trying to start a fight or a problem, just offering a counterpoint - AAA games are expensive, and can't afford to appeal to a niche.