Chapter 6 - Ghost rating with all loot?

[shnick]

So I just finished Chapter 6 with an Opportunist rating, even though I was never detected. Here's a screenshot of my mission debrief: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/106228751902390385/B65A3A5E4602C34F20CC25B060D7EA209F20DDF8/

Here's what I did throughout the mission:
-No detections/suspicions raised
-No KOs/kills
-Did not touch any lights
-Had to snuff out the candles next to safe-017 AND threw a bottle as a distraction in order to rob the safe

It's very likely that the actions I did to rob safe-017 got me the Opportunist points, though I'm not sure if those two actions contributed to the entirety of the 90% Opportunist rating. Also, does disabling traps give Opportunist points? I remembered I only disabled 2 floor traps and 1 door trap.

Thief pros out there, how did you get a ghost rating while managing to get all the loot? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Got a ghost rating (finally): http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/106228751906301266/8BE02F437B9ED878624E4A29DE7EFFFCDCC8F73F/

The only thing I did differently was that I didn't fell the box in the courtyard. Still threw a bottle which as a distraction, which gave Opportunist points. Might try to get a better Ghost percentage with only the lights snuffed out; taking 1 item each time from safe-017.

[shapeshifter878]

Have you checked out cyberwiz97's Ghost Guide?

[shnick]

Originally posted by achilles878:

Have you checked out cyberwiz97's Ghost Guide?

Ok I went to check out his informative guide and I saw that felling a box gives 83% opportunist points. That plus the extra points from snuffing out the candles, maybe that's why I had a 90% opportunist rating.

If so, would that mean that distractions (with no suspicions) don't give Opportunist points?

[AngelOfMayhem]

I haven't done it myself, but apparently it's possible to get a good Ghost rating, but not 100%.
Here is one expert showing how:
https://youtu.be/xxjtS-p1xZw
https://youtu.be/gUUkiAKfnIg

A note for the second video: at 21:30 do not shoot a blunt arrow to release the boat. Go over to it and hit the handle with your blackjack. It's possible the blunt arrow can give you opportunist points.
Two other points in the video where you shouldn't turn the valve: 23:09 and you shouldn't shoot a blunt arrow, but either hit it with your blackjack or just go through the fire: 23:35.

[cyberwiz97]

After countless hours trying to get 100% ghost while gathering 100% loot and collectables, the best I ever could manage is about 88% Ghost and 12% Opportunist, during normal play. The Opportunist points are a result of snuffing out the set of three candles next to the safe (at 3:11 in the 2nd video above), just before getting to the Ceremony room. It is impossible to get the loot from that safe without being seen, unless you put out those candles or create a distraction to draw the guards away. Blowing out the candles costs the least points. But, if you skip the safe, you can get 100% Ghost.

However, having said that ... there is a legitmate way to get all loot and collectables and end the chapter with a 100% Ghost rating. Here's a screenshot of the stats screen ...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=459060956

Originally posted by AngelOfMayhem:

A note for the second video: at 21:30 do not shoot a blunt arrow to release the boat. Go over to it and hit the handle with your blackjack. It's possible the blunt arrow can give you opportunist points.

I haven't found any difference between shooting a blunt arrow or hitting the tackle block with the blackjack. Either way, I always end up with about 12% Opportunist points.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by Bee:

... If so, would that mean that distractions (with no suspicions) don't give Opportunist points?

Distractions, with or without suspicions raised, will give Opportunist points, regardless.

Oh, and one other thing... Opportunist point, while normally cumulative, do vary depending on what other Opportunist points you may also have gotten. Your 90% could very well be comprised of felling the box, blowing out the candles and creating a distraction.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by AngelOfMayhem:

Two other points in the video where you shouldn't turn the valve: 23:09 and you shouldn't shoot a blunt arrow, but either hit it with your blackjack or just go through the fire: 23:35.

So, just to clarify, turning the wheel valve to extinguish the burning gas jet (23:19) does indeed cause Opportunist points, however, shooting the blunt arrow at the tackle block (23:35) causes no such penalty.

It always seemed odd that (if you weren't quick enough to swoop through that part) turning the wheel valve seemed to be kind of required, to progress without taking serious burn damage but, still it causes Opportunist points. Yet, shooting the tackle block, which is not necessary, doesn't. Just another demonstration of the game's inconsistancies with its 'rules'. :/

[shnick]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by AngelOfMayhem:

Two other points in the video where you shouldn't turn the valve: 23:09 and you shouldn't shoot a blunt arrow, but either hit it with your blackjack or just go through the fire: 23:35.

So, just to clarify, turning the wheel valve to extinguish the burning gas jet (23:19) does indeed cause Opportunist points, however, shooting the blunt arrow at the tackle block (23:35) causes no such penalty.

It always seemed odd that (if you weren't quick enough to swoop through that part) turning the wheel valve seemed to be kind of required, to progress without taking serious burn damage but, still it causes Opportunist points. Yet, shooting the tackle block, which is not necessary, doesn't. Just another demonstration of the game's inconsistancies with its 'rules'. :/

Well, I actually felled two boxes; one in the escape scene (which does not give Opportunist points) and another to access a small section of the courtyard from the attic (Candlestick, Ring and 2 pockets). I know the second felled box was completely unnecessary and I could bypass it AND get all loot through detours and other routes, but it was just out of convenience. Iirc, i did not use the valve for the gas jet.

[AngelOfMayhem]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by AngelOfMayhem:

Two other points in the video where you shouldn't turn the valve: 23:09 and you shouldn't shoot a blunt arrow, but either hit it with your blackjack or just go through the fire: 23:35.

So, just to clarify, turning the wheel valve to extinguish the burning gas jet (23:19) does indeed cause Opportunist points, however, shooting the blunt arrow at the tackle block (23:35) causes no such penalty.

It always seemed odd that (if you weren't quick enough to swoop through that part) turning the wheel valve seemed to be kind of required, to progress without taking serious burn damage but, still it causes Opportunist points. Yet, shooting the tackle block, which is not necessary, doesn't. Just another demonstration of the game's inconsistancies with its 'rules'. :/

OK. I see.
The inconsistencies is a sad thing. They could have fixed this.
The forum has questions about this and chapter 5. So are we expecting a post to get 100% ghost/loot in chapter 7 too? Because that chapter is totally broken. Another one you need Spectral Aspect to get all loot undetected. You can't reach the box to disarm a trap otherwise. But then, there's another trap later in the game, with one loot piece and a rope arrow. Maybe you can grab it and let yourself get damaged there. I don't know if disarming that trap gives opportunist points.

[AngelOfMayhem]

Originally posted by Bee:

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

So, just to clarify, turning the wheel valve to extinguish the burning gas jet (23:19) does indeed cause Opportunist points, however, shooting the blunt arrow at the tackle block (23:35) causes no such penalty.

It always seemed odd that (if you weren't quick enough to swoop through that part) turning the wheel valve seemed to be kind of required, to progress without taking serious burn damage but, still it causes Opportunist points. Yet, shooting the tackle block, which is not necessary, doesn't. Just another demonstration of the game's inconsistancies with its 'rules'. :/

Well, I actually felled two boxes; one in the escape scene (which does not give Opportunist points) and another to access a small section of the courtyard from the attic (Candlestick, Ring and 2 pockets). I know the second felled box was completely unnecessary and I could bypass it AND get all loot through detours and other routes, but it was just out of convenience. Iirc, i did not use the valve for the gas jet.

Yeah. You should loot all the courtyard and to get into the house it's smart to take the way through the sewers, at least if you also are looking to get an achievement for finding all secret areas. Also, you save a rope arrow going through the sewers. But with three ways into the Manor, you can really pick and choose. At least perhaps one word of advice, is to enter the dining room (or peeking through the keyhole) only after you looted the rooms nearby, because of the guards starting to patrol. And another weird thing to note is that the guard walking back and forth between the hallway and the room with the safe alters his pattern with time (unless you reload). So if you want to get into the room with loot in a drawer (opposite the room with the safe) unnoticed, you can take advantage of him being as far away as possible. At least that's my method.

[shnick]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

After countless hours trying to get 100% ghost while gathering 100% loot and collectables, the best I ever could manage is about 88% Ghost and 12% Opportunist, during normal play. The Opportunist points are a result of snuffing out the set of three candles next to the safe (at 3:11 in the 2nd video above), just before getting to the Ceremony room. It is impossible to get the loot from that safe without being seen, unless you put out those candles or create a distraction to draw the guards away. Blowing out the candles costs the least points. But, if you skip the safe, you can get 100% Ghost.

However, having said that ... there is a legitmate way to get all loot and collectables and end the chapter with a 100% Ghost rating. Here's a screenshot of the stats screen ...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=459060956

Originally posted by AngelOfMayhem:

A note for the second video: at 21:30 do not shoot a blunt arrow to release the boat. Go over to it and hit the handle with your blackjack. It's possible the blunt arrow can give you opportunist points.

I haven't found any difference between shooting a blunt arrow or hitting the tackle block with the blackjack. Either way, I always end up with about 12% Opportunist points.

So with spectral aspect did you still snuff out the lights (looking at your Ghost percentage being 100%) or does the trinket make you almost invisible on Master difficulty?

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by Bee:

So with spectral aspect did you still snuff out the lights (looking at your Ghost percentage being 100%) or does the trinket make you almost invisible on Master difficulty?

Using Spectal Aspect feels like you're cheating. You can literally crouch right in front of a guard and he won't see you. So, no. You don't have to snuff out the candles. In fact, all you really need to do is move out of his way when he comes back to the safe. I'm serious. It's almost like the old "notarget" command we used to use, in older games, like Half-Life.

That's why it cost so very much (28000 gold, iirc). It's nearly impossible to get it prior to chapter 7, so you really have to complete the game, then go back to chapter 6 to replay it with the trinket. But, after playing the whole game being extra careful, it's kinda awsome, going around like a true ghost, with reckless abandon.

However, getting 100% Ghost in chapter 7, even with Spectral Aspect, still eludes me...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786632412

[AngelOfMayhem]

Spectral Aspect is both cool and totally OP.
You are 100% invisible with it, not just "almost invisible". The description for the trinket is a bit misleading that way. Even the freaks won't hear(!) you as easily (since how they detect you is based on sounds you make).

It is only unlocked by the Merchant after chapter 6. But you can earn the gold to get it, if you really go for it.
I'm a total nerd, so I "just" play The Bank Heist until I have the gold needed.
It's cool to stay ahead anyway, upgrading all trinkets and upgrades before you go on to chapter 7.

That is, of course, if you're playing Thief the lazy way, and don't care about the efforts of sneaking. But that's the fun part of Thief, you don't have to play it hardcore if you don't want to.
Only thing that upsets me is people playing it like the developers intended people to go berserk on the guards. Attacking them from the front, even... All I want to do when I see people playing Thief that way is tell them "pop in another game, mate!". How about Doom... Of course, I'm not that type of guy so I just let them play however they like, but at least I move on to another stream.

[shnick]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by Bee:

So with spectral aspect did you still snuff out the lights (looking at your Ghost percentage being 100%) or does the trinket make you almost invisible on Master difficulty?

Using Spectal Aspect feels like you're cheating. You can literally crouch right in front of a guard and he won't see you. So, no. You don't have to snuff out the candles. In fact, all you really need to do is move out of his way when he comes back to the safe. I'm serious. It's almost like the old "notarget" command we used to use, in older games, like Half-Life.

That's why it cost so very much (28000 gold, iirc). It's nearly impossible to get it prior to chapter 7, so you really have to complete the game, then go back to chapter 6 to replay it with the trinket. But, after playing the whole game being extra careful, it's kinda awsome, going around like a true ghost, with reckless abandon.

However, getting 100% Ghost in chapter 7, even with Spectral Aspect, still eludes me...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786632412

Wow that's probably the best Ghost percentage I've seen. Just completed M7 myself, had to use 2 Flash Bombs to rob the collectible from the General. That plus 1 water arrow; since I don't used focus (or upgrades) net me about ~45% Ghost in my debrief. Yet, surprisingly, I was still awarded Ghost.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by Bee:

... Just completed M7 myself, had to use 2 Flash Bombs to rob the collectible from the General. That plus 1 water arrow; since I don't used focus (or upgrades) net me about ~45% Ghost in my debrief. Yet, surprisingly, I was still awarded Ghost.

Yeah. your rating will be whichever is the one with the greatest percentage.

[shapeshifter878]

Originally posted by Bee Theory:

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Using Spectal Aspect feels like you're cheating. You can literally crouch right in front of a guard and he won't see you. So, no. You don't have to snuff out the candles. In fact, all you really need to do is move out of his way when he comes back to the safe. I'm serious. It's almost like the old "notarget" command we used to use, in older games, like Half-Life.

That's why it cost so very much (28000 gold, iirc). It's nearly impossible to get it prior to chapter 7, so you really have to complete the game, then go back to chapter 6 to replay it with the trinket. But, after playing the whole game being extra careful, it's kinda awsome, going around like a true ghost, with reckless abandon.

However, getting 100% Ghost in chapter 7, even with Spectral Aspect, still eludes me...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786632412

Wow that's probably the best Ghost percentage I've seen. Just completed M7 myself, had to use 2 Flash Bombs to rob the collectible from the General. That plus 1 water arrow; since I don't used focus (or upgrades) net me about ~45% Ghost in my debrief. Yet, surprisingly, I was still awarded Ghost.

Is it possible to pick pocket the guard standing next to the bird cage at the starting area of M7(just where you can climb into the cathedral) without dousing the fire? Also, I had trouble getting the loot on the pipe at the elevator area without putting out the torch there. Mostly ended me falling into the abyss..or getting whacked over the head...