Heretic II? Why not a Heretic III someday?

[Forgot7en]

I'm surprised Heretic II hasn't been rereleased yet. Not even on GOG. Obviously I have some nostalgia for these games, so I'd like to get them digitally together someday. (I already own Heretic + Hexen on GOG).

But that has me wondering, if the series resurfaced someday, what would a potential Heretic III be about?

And pardon the dumb question, but would you want remakes?

[Stalker2010]

Remakes yes, doubt they will consider a new entry. DOOM Dark Ages is probably as close as it gets.

[QuestionableIntentions]

With Raven Software stuck in Call of Duty Purgatory we shall never see a Raven release again.
This is one of the reasons why underrated Wolfenstein 2009 has never been put on sale on Steam or GOG.
If someone were to buy Raven's assets, that would be a goldmine for Night Dive Studios to try to snatch up and remake all of it and maybe even bundle heretic+hexen specifically into the existing Doom+Doom2 bundle.

[Forgot7en]

Originally posted by Stalker2010:

Remakes yes,

Surprised someone would say that... I dunno about remaking the first game would be necessary, but I guess if it's in the style of DOOM 2016 it'd probably be a hit.
I'm not sure if Heretic II would benefit from a remake. Maybe if you made it sorta play like RE4R, but I think it would hold up as a remake like how Tomb Raider 1-3 did it.

Originally posted by Waukee:

With Raven Software stuck in Call of Duty Purgatory we shall never see a Raven release again.
This is one of the reasons why underrated Wolfenstein 2009 has never been put on sale on Steam or GOG.
If someone were to buy Raven's assets, that would be a goldmine for Night Dive Studios to try to snatch up and remake all of it and maybe even bundle heretic+hexen specifically into the existing Doom+Doom2 bundle.

I mean, if Legacy of Kain's rights can be bought for remasters, I don't see why Heretic wouldn't do it.
And there's no doubt Nightdive Studios would knock it the hell out of the park, they've been pretty much spotless with their releases.

[jemYZX]

Seems Phil Spencer didn't bring the spell of ascensa over, huh. :/

[Forgot7en]

Originally posted by jemYZX:

Seems Phil Spencer didn't bring the spell of ascensa over, huh. :/

gottem

[Ffabbia]

I'd not want to play a Heretic game in the style of Doom 2016 - basically an arena shooter which forces you to play at breakneck speed, with constant movement and platforming where you're punished for hesitating or standing still. I know a lot of people love it but it just leaves me cold.

The ideal Heretic III for me would be something more in the style of Wolfenstein The New Order, at least in the pure game mechanic terms of having the option to either take the slow, stealthy approach, or go pure run and gun (run and Elven wand?) gung ho - with that choice left up to the player.

[Forgot7en]

Originally posted by Ffabbia:

I'd not want to play a Heretic game in the style of Doom 2016 - basically an arena shooter which forces you to play at breakneck speed, with constant movement and platforming where you're punished for hesitating or standing still. I know a lot of people love it but it just leaves me cold.

But that's kind of exactly how the first Heretic played, it was very much a Doomlike.
Heretic II on the other hand, was more of a proper adventure game, and I have to admit I enjoyed it way more. It's a ♥♥♥♥♥ to get to run on modern systems though, so. I wish there was a working new release that didn't make me ragequit because getting it to run at all is too much of a hassle.

[Ffabbia]

Originally posted by Forgot7en:

Originally posted by Ffabbia:

I'd not want to play a Heretic game in the style of Doom 2016 - basically an arena shooter which forces you to play at breakneck speed, with constant movement and platforming where you're punished for hesitating or standing still. I know a lot of people love it but it just leaves me cold.

But that's kind of exactly how the first Heretic played, it was very much a Doomlike.
Heretic II on the other hand, was more of a proper adventure game, and I have to admit I enjoyed it way more. It's a ♥♥♥♥♥ to get to run on modern systems though, so. I wish there was a working new release that didn't make me ragequit because getting it to run at all is too much of a hassle.

I disagree. You were never punished merely for standing still in the original Heretic, you could take things as fast or slow as you wished. Sure there some frantic sections where you'll need to be good at strafing if you wish to avoid damage, but it's never been a speed shooter. It's perfectly possible to play large sections of the game by carefully picking off each enemy from cover, no requirement to rush around, jumping onto crates and getting in the enemies' faces.

[Forgot7en]

You're free to disagree but I invite you to look up a speedrun of both games and you'll see how blatantly similar the games play at high skill level. Taking cover is entirely possible in Doom; maybe not quite as much, but it was absolutely a choice you had for most of the game if you wanted to take it slow.

[Ffabbia]

Again, I respectfully disagree with that premise.

By comparing speed runs of two games I feel that you are creating a forced equivalence.

For sure speed running game A may give a similar experience to speedrunning game B.

But my point has always been: You don't HAVE to speedrun Heretic, but I think you HAVE to speedrun Doom 2016. I'm not completely convinced that Doom 2016 will work if played as a slow, tactical shooter, given it's nature and focus on close range kills and finishing moves, not to mention that standing still for any length of time is very often punished.

Heretic and similar games favour strafing and damage avoidance, but not extreme close range kills coupled with constant forward movement... unless maybe you play using only the Dragon Claw. Hexen (if you play the Fighter) might be said to be closer - but even that game is far more focussed on puzzles and exploration. Doom 2016 not to much.

Thus, for me at least, the two games feel very different.

[Forgot7en]

Originally posted by Ffabbia:

But my point has always been: You don't HAVE to speedrun Heretic, but I think you HAVE to speedrun Doom 2016.

I wasn't talking about Doom 2016, I was talking about the original Doom.

[Ffabbia]

Originally posted by Forgot7en:

Originally posted by Ffabbia:

But my point has always been: You don't HAVE to speedrun Heretic, but I think you HAVE to speedrun Doom 2016.

I wasn't talking about Doom 2016, I was talking about the original Doom.

That explains a lot. I'd been talking about Doom 2016 all along. Seems we got crossed wires.

[Forgot7en]

It's okay! But then what I said makes sense, right?

[Ffabbia]

Yes, absolutely.

[abnerdcliff]

heretic 3 is just Ziggurat