Help with Challenge of the Ages

[Mousejockey2005]

Can we get a bit more information on how to be successful in these challenges. I'm 34 hours into this game despite the various bugs that instantly end the ability to play a line (hoping those are getting patched SOON!)

However, when I do put in the hours to get to the challenge, it seems no matter what choices I pick result in disaster. I am frustrated by not having any real sense of the consequence of a specific choice, and the fact that choosing the same options in subsequent challenges can have completely different results.

I want to use what I have learned from previous games to help new lineages succeed but it seems almost entirely random no matter what options I pick... so would appreciate some more info on how to beat these challenges.

1. Is it a guessing game and I just hope like heck I pick the right of 4 possible options each step of the challenge?

2. The game indicates that heroic deeds and discoveries can give me "advantages" with the challenges of the ages... where is this evidenced? What kind of advantages? Does this mean I should putz around doing a few heroic and discovery challenges prior to advancing?

3. Does it matter which track I pass a challenge on or is it just personal preference? In terms of family success does it matter if I am on the ruling class track or the lowest of the wheat farmers?

SAVE GAME OPTIONS

Why are there no save game options? Can't stand being 3 hours into a lineage and then sudden disaster strikes (or bug)... end of game. My favorite is when you just start a game and you get an event when you move to an occupied tile that just says your guy decided to steal something and got caught and killed... oh well... start again. Don't understand the point of events that force you to restart 3 - 20 turns into the game.

[Musenik]

Are you raising more than one child per generation? Think of siblings as extra save games.

Also

Does this mean I should putz around doing a few heroic and discovery challenges prior to advancing?

Yes. Discoveries help to overcome challenges on the same track. Heroic successes help to overcome any challenge of the age, regardless of track.

Discoveries and heroics skew the results of your choices towards beneficial results. They don't guarantee success, but the more you have the better your odds.

We plan to post a patched build next week.

[Mousejockey2005]

"Think of children as save games"... LOL I love it! That one needs to go down as a quote for the electronic generation!

Thanks for the additional info! I've been basically doing elevation quests to get to ruling... and then it takes 2 or 3 ruling to get all power titles... and that triggers CotA automatically.

I've kind of avoided heroics because they usually backfire on me... and it seems like discoveries don't actually give you an advantage for a few generations... just the one you are on... so the benefit is so fleeting I avoided those.

[Mousejockey2005]

PS It would be great if when you moused over a coin, the associated tile that it would move you to gets highlighted on the board. Would help with not seeing the tile beyond pawns and when you are crossing levels and you're not quite sure if you are aligned with the closest tile of that type or the next one.

[Wilbry]

"Think of children as save games"
I agree with Mousejockey - I hope to this on footer taglines in forums I visit in the future.

Musenik - I think what the OP would like (and me also) is to see how our previous game choices are benefiting our future choices. So if we have a War Hero in our past we want to see which of the 4 options this will benefits before we make the choice or at least in the result text:

"Your War Hero ancestry lent gravitas to the speech and indpired the army to victory"

[ServerNotAbleToAuthenticateUser]

"Think of children as save games"

Children beyond 2 seem like more trouble than they're worth to me; they're just another mouth to feed. Either my main kid will grow up stupid, or he'll have angry siblings constantly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ his day up in the next round.

The last time my pawns mated I said "damn it, I wish this thing had abortions!" I was on a plane. I think this is why the old lady next to me asked to change seats.*

*(ok, none og that happened, but I am constantly wishing for an abortion mechanic...)

[BON jOUR]

The game certainly makes a strong argument for birth control and abortion.

[Mousejockey2005]

Well I figured out children... best scenario all the way around is to have 1 and keep it that way if you can... no infighting, no penalties next round, you keep all your tokens next round due to only 1 child needing inheritance. There is zero reason to have more than one child if you can avoid it.

The only game reason is if your next child crashes and burns, so you can play on as his brother/sister, but to me that's an epic fail and I restart the whole line... surviving the wheel is easy if you always have just one kid. The only time you'll lose him is the first level due to early starvation but once you get past that an only child is the way to go.

Challenge of the Ages on the other hand, is a huge pain in the ass that almost never ends well... so far... and I have done like 12 of them.

[Musenik]

The important thing in this game is surviving the Challenge of the Age. If after 14 tries, you're still stuck in the Copper age, that would be something which has to be fixed. It is very common, though, that after surviving a CotA, the family will have degraded to a lower class. Extremely rarely, the family continues on the same track or elevates.

Family discoveries and heroic appellations generally help with survival not with social class continuance.

[Mousejockey2005]

So the point is to survive? Ok well in that case it's dead easy. You can always survive... just have a ton of children... LOL... if that is the point, then you have the easiest game imaginable.

I always "make it" to the Bronze age because I have lineage, but my point is that "surviving" by dying off and having the blood line continue through some distant cousin doesn't "feel" like you won... I think if you added more of a payoff to indicate that even though you were only King for a day, or even though when you took over your entire civilization was wiped out, you should still consider it a win... because one of your distant cousins lived.

Mad props by the way for the uniqueness of the game, the story, the goals, the interface... I really like it all... I am just making these posts because I think for broad consumer appeal, and ultimate commercial success, you need to find a way to keep all the uniqueness... but still pat the player on the back along the way so he knows he is "winning" =)

[ServerNotAbleToAuthenticateUser]

That's actually pretty bad advice, mousejocky...

It is often a good idea to have one child, especially if you're poor, but you do want to have multiples from time to time at the very least, because it is not "easy to survive the wheel." A random event could murder you and your children at any time, it's not even a rare occurance. No amount of good playing or strategy can prevent that. Also, it's entirely possible that you won't be able to land on a suiter your first turn, and by your second they'll all have been snatched up.

Furthermore, raising children who get along actually provides you with nice bonuses on your next round. You'll randomly get extra tokens now and then. The problem is, even if you do raise them equally (and I do mean have them do the same thing EVERY turn, not just most turns), they still might end up hating each other, because of course one of the few places you can try to play strategically has to be somewhat random too. That or it's buggy, I don't know which.

[Musenik]

i do respect your perspective, Mousejockey. The intent in this game is for people to create family histories with both successes and failures. At IndieCade this E3, my game was next to a point and click adventure about living with cancer. By no means is 7 Grand Steps that serious of a game, but a family history game that can produce only winning stories would be disingenuous. Maybe the point is to accept missteps in your family line. It's a harsh world, and at times its worth understanding that some people will react ferally in trying situations.

If anything, I would say you've taken a tough road to achieve a majority of successes. One child per family and restarting the game if the lineage fails. That's hard-core, and the random factors in this game will undoubtedly feel overly punishing.

[Mousejockey2005]

Originally posted by ServerNotAbleToAuthenticateUser:

That's actually pretty bad advice, mousejocky...

It is often a good idea to have one child, especially if you're poor, but you do want to have multiples from time to time at the very least, because it is not "easy to survive the wheel." A random event could murder you and your children at any time, it's not even a rare occurance. No amount of good playing or strategy can prevent that. Also, it's entirely possible that you won't be able to land on a suiter your first turn, and by your second they'll all have been snatched up.

Furthermore, raising children who get along actually provides you with nice bonuses on your next round. You'll randomly get extra tokens now and then. The problem is, even if you do raise them equally (and I do mean have them do the same thing EVERY turn, not just most turns), they still might end up hating each other, because of course one of the few places you can try to play strategically has to be somewhat random too. That or it's buggy, I don't know which.

Just going by experience... I don't know if it's bad advice as I find it the optimum way to get to the top fast, but I can certainly accept there are other ways to play. Having tried it both ways I personally have found the benefits of having loving siblings do not outweight the pain of having those that "get drunk, hurt me, and don't pay my doctor's bill"... ROFL... that's my personal favorite. I try to imagine that Copper Age discussion... LOL...

Plus that last bit you said is also true... even if I do raise them equally it often just randomly bites me in the ass, so I always feel safer with just the one kid. Missing marriage can happen ya... in 44 hours it's happened to me once. So that's a risk I'm prepared to take.

I have found so far, that the only time you really risk insta death due to losinig your only child, is really early, like first or second turn... and for me that's early enough to just restart. Even then, it's pretty easy to quickly have another child most of the time. Also, I've never had a child killed past the first layer of the wheel and I am on the second layer by the third or fourth family... and at the top pretty quick after that.

However, I haven't even begun trying to stay on the lower levels... the game is just more fun for me when I get to to play the ruling class game as well as the usual wheel stuff.

[Mousejockey2005]

Originally posted by Musenik:

i do respect your perspective, Mousejockey. The intent in this game is for people to create family histories with both successes and failures. At IndieCade this E3, my game was next to a point and click adventure about living with cancer. By no means is 7 Grand Steps that serious of a game, but a family history game that can produce only winning stories would be disingenuous. Maybe the point is to accept missteps in your family line. It's a harsh world, and at times its worth understanding that some people will react ferally in trying situations.

If anything, I would say you've taken a tough road to achieve a majority of successes. One child per family and restarting the game if the lineage fails. That's hard-core, and the random factors in this game will undoubtedly feel overly punishing.

MUSENIK - I appreciate you taking the time to answer and help. I get it's a unique game and having gamed all my life, it's hard not to share an opinion =) However I do respect the intent of the game and as I said it's truly unique and interesting. I think maybe I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around what success is in the game... and with video games, yeah I am a min/maxer for sure... I'm always looking for the ultimate victory which maybe just doesn't exist here.

Thanks again for this truly unique offering... now just fix those last few bugs please =)

I got a new one today where my child both loved and hated the same sibling. It literally said X loves Y and on the next line it said X hates Y. In case you hadn't run into that one before.

[HerrPanzerCardinal]

About the siblings hating each other even though you have fed both of them the exact same tokens on every turn, I find going a turn or two of just letting them play instead of teaching them something almost always clears the hate. I like to think of it as two eager siblings trying to outcompete each other in the classroom and it results in resentment. Oh and btw I always go for 2 children and try to make them about equal in traits. I just had a round where on my last move at the end of the wheel I had a random event where I had to send my children out begging for food. Eldest got killed, good thing I had 2 kids and both were well trained, an heir and a spare :).

[Musenik]

Thanks again for this truly unique offering... now just fix those last few bugs please =)

Heh, we just started testing a new build. Knock on wood.