Party composition questions

[mike.xulima]

I've only played for a couple of hours to try to get a feel for it and now am looking to make a party I'll try to go deep in to the game with. Will probably use Adventurer mode for the first play through. First impressions are it looks addictive!

I don't mind if my group is not min-maxed perfectly or the optimal mix of classes. If they can handle the game without being gimped, ie if they'll at least be of average power, then I'll be happy if I like the picks for RP value.

I was looking to take one character from each race, and when I look at possible combinations, it's very hard to get coverage for Water magic, at least with the classes that appeal to me. I'm thinking for Elf, the Blademaster looks fun. But that means no Druid. For Human, I think I want to go Crusader. But that means no Freemage, so again no Water (also no Dark). I am also drawn to the Runepriest class and not so much to either of the other two Dwarf options. All the Orc choices look cool to me, so I just need to pick whichever one compliments the rest of the party the best I guess.

So I could go with Crusader / Blademaster / Runepriest / Orc ?. But no Orc classes have Water magic. I'd probably lean towards Hunter but Barb sounds fun too. Does this group have enough magic to not add a Shaman there instead? Will I miss Water a lot?

The other way I was thinking of going would be:

Freemage / Blademaster / Runepriest / Barbarian (or maybe Hunter)

This way I would get Water, but I feel like the Blademaster will be stronger with a Crusader around. Although the Barbarian (or Hunter, although then who's the Tank?) sounds like it would be more fun in combat than the Crusader. I would have Dark for some buffs from the Freemage too.

Just looking for some help deciding. All the choices are a good problem I think ;)

[HotShot Joe]

you will be fine without water. basically you want a light magic on one member and earth on somebody else. the rest is to heal statuses which you can use potions for. prime has identify items (saves money) and dark has detect secrets which you can use scrolls or hirelings for. if you were playing warrior mode it would be much more important.

i would recommend a orc barbarian to compliment your classes though and make sure you level warfare on him.

[Traul]

"Crusader / Blademaster / Runepriest / Orc" That is a solid group and perfect for a beginner, either with a Barbarian or Hunter. The barbarian is easier for a first playthrough. Skipping water magic might be better for now: its trainers and spells are available later than other magics, so you need to know where you are going before you can use it correctly.

[Clacker]

I tried a few party's, all magic, all melee, combo's, etc and the one i really enjoyed and is very strong is a crusader, barbarian, mercenary, rune priest. you could go 2 barbarians instead of merc, but i enjoyed the merc and really did not want to play 2 of the same class. this does not have an elf, but i wanted my 2 melee character to use 2 hand weapons, and elf does not have. i tried using crusader with bladedancer and scout dual weld axe, but I like the 2 handers better, they hit freaken hard. plus some mobs have retaliation and this hurts with dual welders. 2 handers very little.

here is how i specced

Crusader- 1 point magic, 1 vitality, 2 spirit. once magic pool is up can put 2 in magic to get stronger spells. max out light. you want at least to get group heal and resurrection quick as you can. I did not put points in strength because i really only cast spells with this character. i raised 1 hand sword up some to get a weapon that gave me +40 mana. radiant weapon works really good until your 2 handers can hit without getting blocked. basically once you build up your heavy armor and shield and magic resist, this character should not die, and you can then focus on healing and resurecting team members.

Merc- some say go 3 might, 1 vitality since you cannot grandmaster a weapon, but i found i was missing a lot. of course once you get grandmaster war your first swing will always hit with a crit, but until then you will miss a lot. so i went 2 in might, 1 perception, and 1 vitality. you can either go swords or axe 2 hand. i went with axe for the big hits. yes the sword can hit twice but the second hit can miss or be blocked (unless your paly uses radiant weapon). easy class, max out 2 hand, weapon, dodge,and most important get grand master war soon as you can.

Barb- another easy class, about same as merc, 2 might, 1 perc, 1 vit. max out either mace or spear, 2 hande, war, etc. this guy will hit hard.

rune priest. this works good with the crusader. since the crusader is handling light the rune priest can focus on fire and earth, and some air and prime. basically can cover everyting except dark and water. get burning determination asap because if paralized water is needed to cure it, use bd though and cannnot be paralizes. i always keep a few scrolls in inventory if someone does get paralizes. like the paly put in magic, vitality, and spirit. raise up all magic schools to get the cures then pile on fire and earth. fires does great area damage and earth combined with the pally heals you will have no problem with healing.

fun party. you will kill most mobs in the first round of combat. the pally and run priest sync really well. and your 2 handers will do awesome damage. if you do want to have all 4 races you could switch out the merc for the bladedancer. he will not do much damage at the beginnign but end game will be strong. just be careful of mobs with retaliation, like luke in the beginning, may just want him to defend on those fights utill stronger.

any group can pretty much finish the game. even an all melee group with no magic, but some are more fun. I did not miss dark much. i just bought plenty of those whisperin shadow scrolls till i got the dog.

but anyway, try a few different combos at least through to the spider queen and see how you like them, then choose.

oh yea forgot. put a point in bow at the start for each member. this will help alot through the first part of the game.

[Grakor]

Shaman does get water magic. They get all of the elemental magics, basically.

[Clacker]

i tried a party with shaman and crusader and 2 melee, but I had more fun with the runepriest. the shaman is a beast though once they get promoted. the pally though is just so good at healing i found i wanted more offense. and once the runepriest maxes out fire and get promoted it was just helping me more. also prime magic is really nice to have. beacon awesome. although i guess you could get some scrolls for it. can't go wrong with either choice. is just whatever you have more fun with.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Crusader or Freemage/ Blademaster or Scout / Freemage or Runepriest/ Orc

Are frankly the best combo(s) in game; obviously preventing any "cheese" tactics in the process. I am sure you have done your homework but just in case anyone else is wondering why this is the case :

1. Crusader is the best healer in the game followed by the freemage who is the also the best mage in game. You want the best tank/healer go with crusader, you want some more damage with some healing (more glass cannon + risk) then go with the freemage.

2. Blademaster dual swords/daggers and scout dual axes are the two best dps in game. Blademaster will produce better DPS but the scout will give you an extra 200+ hp without any extra effort. Same applies here, you want more tank with slightly less DPS go with scout, you want more damage and slightly less survivability go with bladedancer.

3. Two best magic dealers in game are Freemage and Runepriest due to GM magical focus.

4. You should have at least one dwarf and one orc in your party, two huge areas of the world will not be open to you if you do not. Which orc you pick up should depend on your other choices.

[mike.xulima]

Thanks for all the replies. Grakor was right, the Shaman does get water.

I ended up taking a Crusader for a Human; Bladedancer for Elf; Runepriest for Dwarf; and an Orc Shaman. They're up to about level 13 and have been pretty fun so far, can't wait for the light damage buff for the Crusader.

I do think the Freemage looks better than the Shaman as it has access to Dark and can also GM Magical Focus. But the Shaman fits the group well and lets me cover all the races, and I love the female orc voice ;)

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Clacker:

Merc- some say go 3 might, 1 vitality since you cannot grandmaster a weapon, but i found i was missing a lot. of course once you get grandmaster war your first swing will always hit with a crit, but until then you will miss a lot. so i went 2 in might, 1 perception, and 1 vitality. you can either go swords or axe 2 hand. i went with axe for the big hits. yes the sword can hit twice but the second hit can miss or be blocked (unless your paly uses radiant weapon). easy class, max out 2 hand, weapon, dodge,and most important get grand master war soon as you can.

Almost all melees benefit most if you use Relentless weapons. So in this context, should not even Mercenaries boost Perception - and possibly even Destiny - even if they will use Flawless Assault at end-game? You still have the 2nd swing that is not affected by Flawless Assault. And you have a 3rd swing if you go 2H sword, since Flawless Assault crit will activate another swing.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:

1. Crusader is the best healer in the game followed by the freemage who is the also the best mage in game.

"Best mage" is a very subjective and arbitrary claim in this case. Freemage may be the most "versatile," but Runepriest clearly out-damages him, and Druid is a better healer and defensive support mage.

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:

2. Blademaster dual swords/daggers and scout dual axes are the two best dps in game. Blademaster will produce better DPS but the scout will give you an extra 200+ hp without any extra effort. Same applies here, you want more tank with slightly less DPS go with scout, you want more damage and slightly less survivability go with bladedancer.

Scout is not remotely close to the "best DPS." I would suspect every primary melee (yes, even Defender, if correctly built) will out-damage him, as well as likely a dagger Ranger. The fundamental issue with the Scout is that it has neither the volume of attacks that a Bladedancer and a dagger Ranger can throw out nor the big auto-crit Warfare GM ability that Mercenary and Defender can access. For instance, I've run a group with both Mercenary and Scout, and the Scout couldn't even come close to a sword Mercenary in terms of damage, even when supported by both Paladin and Freemage (with Relentless weapons, the Mercenary had 3 2H hits, whereas the Scout had 4 1H hits; and the Mercenary was doing 1k-plus damage every turn even without any buffs or de-buffs on caster enemies). In fact, a Mercenary would out-damage even a sword Bladedancer, absent Cleave - which puts the Bladedancer at a different category altogether.

In my testing, dual wield builds are a bit over-rated, with the exception of the post-Cleave Bladedancer. To begin with, absent Cleave, the dual wielders do not generally out-damage the 2H melees. Moreover, even in cases when they do, they can only do it if they are supported by both Freemage's Agony and Paladin's Mandate of Heaven. And this is a huge opportunity cost, because you are essentially relegating 2 caster slots to buff-bots.