Questions about Von Braun deck layout

[Jhonny G]

Long story short; I want to recreate the Von Braun in another game, but have run into some dead ends while trying to work out the blueprints. So I'm hoping the SS2 fanbase might be able to provide some feedback on a couple of questions.

- Is it safe to assume the main elevator runs in a typical vertical shaft? And where do you think it is located? I'm inclined to believe it's somewhere in the rear-half of the ship, below the "nose" of the bridge fin. (Hydro deck got me puzzled tho)

- What's that long underpass with the glass windows in Engineering supposed to be? That place never really made much sense to me.

- Do we actually ever visit Navigational Control (the very front of the ship) in the game? And do you think the nose is retractable given its design?

- Did the devs get Command Deck turned around? This is really the only way I can get the layout to make sense. Main elevator is located roughly 30m from the Command Deck elevator, yet we have to travel ~200-300m by tram to get to the bridge area. Which is nearly the entire length of the Von Braun if you include the Officer's Quarters...

..Unless you turn everything around and the engine core is actually in the front?!? Head starting to spin again, need help xD

[Thermal Lance]

Well... Do Citadel Station instead. That one kind of made more sense when you think about it.

[Vepar]

1. That's how i thought about it. As for where it is, make a whole map (just cubes, no detail) in blender or something, then connect it to the vertical shaft elevator to where the entry points are, and you should get a rough estimate of the whole ship's layout. And wether or not it makes sense or not.

2. I think that's the bottom of the ship. Engineering is of course the first deck, med/sci the second, etc. so the others are above it. Kinda makes sense since the big room where you install 45M/DEx has a huge window where you see the top decks stretching forward.

3. See 2. I think the engineering forward part (45m/dex), is the flight. You later get from the Rickenbacker's flight navigation room into the endgame where shodan is creating her reality.

4. No idea honestly... Keep in mind, some parts of the ship were blown so not everything is reachable. The ship might be bigger than you think, or can access in game.

If you do make a functioning "3D map" of it, and how the layout works, i'd love to see it!
Good luck!

[Sikobae]

It's a combination of the limits of 1999 tech and developer oversight. The mappers clearly did not take into account the ships shape. Explain all of those extra rooms on the Body of the Many that didn't exist on previous decks, like the chem store with the charger.

You can only really get around it with a complete redesign. Hell, contract someone to draw a floor plan for you.

Originally posted by Dogmatius:

- Do we actually ever visit Navigational Control

I always assumed that was the purpose of the upper floor on the Command deck,

[Vepar]

Originally posted by Sikobae:

It's a combination of the limits of 1999 tech and developer oversight. The mappers clearly did not take into account the ships shape. Explain all of those extra rooms on the Body of the Many that didn't exist on previous decks, like the chem store with the charger.

Yeah, this was done with gameplay in mind, more than anything. And limitations do make the layout quite impossible as you say.

Though it could be that the many swollowed bits of the ship and they ended up in it. It's only said that the many is wrapped around the ship, so since there was an explosion at the beginning and parts of the ship were depressurised, it could be that the chem store with charger and other rooms got gobbled up by the many.

Now, where exactly the charger draws power from is another matter lol.

But yeah, a redesign would be probably needed to make the layout make sense.

[ps47.3dfx]

the levels, when stitched together, match the ship's shape only partially, and there are places/parts where they don't match it at all. you would have to modify the maps quite a bit for everything to fit properly.

anyway, this could be helpful: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=2058

[DarthShiba]

The only thing that makes sense about the Von Braun's layout is that nothing makes sense.

My impression of the Von Braun layout has always been that the devs created each level independently, knowing how they wanted it to look and feel, rather than thinking of the ship as a whole. If you really think about it, the Von Braun is horribly inefficient in its layout (tons of wasted space), but this was effective in that it gave the game needed tension and atmosphere - the player can't reason each area's layout. I agree with @Thermal Lance, Citadel would be better for recreation purposes.

At least this way, you know you're not alone in your confusion.

[ULTRA]

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Well... Do Citadel Station instead. That one kind of made more sense when you think about it.

Yea exactly, Citadel's levels were designed to be in the shape of the station (circular), Von Braun's were not

[Mandrake]

If you're interested in reading more about how the levels in System Shock 2 were designed, there's this great retrospective on how the Med/Sci floor was created and went on to establish the themes and atmosphere for the rest of the game: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-09-03-the-making-of-system-shock-2s-best-level

[Jhonny G]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. The general opinion seem to be that Von Braun's layout is illogical and some artistic freedom is allowed in order to make it fit inside the hull. With that in mind I just finished creating my first draft for the layout.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1998620386
So what do you think, is it within acceptable standards or is it complete blasphemy?

[Jhonny G]

Originally posted by Sikobae:

It's a combination of the limits of 1999 tech and developer oversight. The mappers clearly did not take into account the ships shape.

Originally posted by Dogmatius:

- Do we actually ever visit Navigational Control

I always assumed that was the purpose of the upper floor on the Command deck,

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Especially after reading the article that Scruffles linked. Sounds like they kept working on ideas rather than an actual plan most of the time. And the tech limitations clearly show when you try to look out the window for example.

As far as I can tell the very top of the Command deck is taking place on the bridge. But in hindsight Nav Control might be behind the destroyed corridor in Ops.

Originally posted by Scruffles:

If you're interested in reading more about how the levels in System Shock 2 were designed, there's this great retrospective on how the Med/Sci floor was created and went on to establish the themes and atmosphere for the rest of the game: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-09-03-the-making-of-system-shock-2s-best-level

Interesting read, thank you. With insight into how they worked, I'm really curious about what happend to Operations East (mess hall sector). Compared to the rest of the game it feels empty and stretched out. Like they forgot to make it and then had to rush some textures onto a placeholder map..

[Vepar]

Originally posted by Dogmatius:

Thanks for all the feedback so far. The general opinion seem to be that Von Braun's layout is illogical and some artistic freedom is allowed in order to make it fit inside the hull. With that in mind I just finished creating my first draft for the layout.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1998620386
So what do you think, is it within acceptable standards or is it complete blasphemy?

Good job!

[ps47.3dfx]

someone's been asking about the total size of the ship awhile ago, so if the large white numbers represent total size in meters, you should be spot on. no time to check the decks, but they don't look half bad at first glance (considering they never can be a perfect match).

also this may be helpful: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=259

[Jhonny G]

Originally posted by ps47.3dfx:

someone's been asking about the total size of the ship awhile ago, so if the large white numbers represent total size in meters, you should be spot on. no time to check the decks, but they don't look half bad at first glance (considering they never can be a perfect match).

also this may be helpful: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=259

Yeah, the large numbers are meant to represent VB's dimensions in meters. Used the measurements uploaded by Voodoo47 and then applied them to the old splashscreen image to create a work template.

The deck layout is mainly based on my own interpretation of the ship and how it could look. Because as seen in the systemshock.org forum, mixing logic with facts only raise more questions than answears. Also, I did deliberately leave out a few major rooms. Like the D1 "glass tunnel" and D4 holographic chamber for example.