NO DEMO on the shopsite ?!!

[frankycl]

Despite listing and advertising the Demo of this game in the current Raw Fury publisher-event, there's NO download-button visible anywhere on the shop-site !

Please take action and activate the Demo again !

Thak you very much in advance.

[deltahazer]

I think the demo was de-listed because it was based on a much earlier version of the game during the early access days. It's had a number of tweaks and balance changes to alleviate various issues people reported from playing the demo back then, so it wouldn't serve as a good representative for the game as it now stands. Be kind of like letting people have a free test-drive in a first-gen VW Beetle to try to convince them to buy a current-year sports car. ;p

Now if they could spare enough dev time to drop a NEW version of the demo that reflected the current game, that would be worth putting up for folks to try.

[frankycl]

Originally posted by deltahazer:

I think the demo was de-listed because it was based on a much earlier version of the game during the early access days. It's had a number of tweaks and balance changes to alleviate various issues people reported from playing the demo back then, so it wouldn't serve as a good representative for the game as it now stands. Be kind of like letting people have a free test-drive in a first-gen VW Beetle to try to convince them to buy a current-year sports car. ;p

Yeah - that's a common but also very dumb view on the subject (and the main reason for not-very-clever DEVs to deactivate their demos ), imho, because you (and they) forget about the folks that already tested their "Beetle" when the demo was still active - what's with those people ? Why aren't the DEVs/you affraid that they won't by their new "sports car", too ? - Or do they/you really believe (or hope) that those people have already forgotten their poor experience with their Beetle ?? - Or aren't those potential customers anymore ??

No, the only smart way way to deal with those demo-things would be to enable access as long as they want to sell their game, imho (and possibly to to tell/show the people who play the demo what even better/other/additional things they can expect from the "sports car" they should buy) and/or to update their demos, as you pointed out rightly (and as many DEVs do already).

[deltahazer]

Originally posted by frankycl:

Originally posted by deltahazer:

I think the demo was de-listed because it was based on a much earlier version of the game during the early access days. It's had a number of tweaks and balance changes to alleviate various issues people reported from playing the demo back then, so it wouldn't serve as a good representative for the game as it now stands. Be kind of like letting people have a free test-drive in a first-gen VW Beetle to try to convince them to buy a current-year sports car. ;p

Yeah - that's a common but also very dumb view on the subject (and the main reason for not-very-clever DEVs to deactivate their demos :evildisappointed:), imho, because you (and they) forget about the folks that already tested their "Beetle" when the demo was still active - what's with those people ? Why aren't the DEVs/you affraid that they won't by their new "sports car", too ? - Or do they/you really believe (or hope) that those people have already forgotten their poor experience with their Beetle ?? :cozybrawlhalla1: - Or aren't those potential customers anymore ??

No, the only smart way way to deal with those demo-things would be to enable access as long as they want to sell their game, imho (and possibly to to tell/show the people who play the demo what even better/other/additional things they can expect from the "sports car" they should buy) and/or to update their demos, as you pointed out rightly (and as many DEVs do already). :happens:

Wow. That is a LOT of hostility and aggression to unload on someone for expressing an opinion.

The tricky thing about using analogies is that if you take them too far, they tend to break down as a functional example. Such is the case here. Your suggestion works for the car version because with a test drive the customer has to bring the vehicle back to the dealership, which then gives the sales person the chance to apply the pressure and upsells you describe.

A demo doesn't have that opportunity. If it leaves too bad an impression on the player, they just uninstall it and generally don't bother even visiting the listing again- unless they decide to visit the discussion forums and drop a stinker complaining about how awful "the game" was.

When a game's in EA status, people tend to be more lenient on average, and will check on a game as its development progresses. Some might even decide that there's enough potential that they will buy the game while it's in EA (as I did well over a year ago) to express a more direct form of support.

But once it has hit 1.0 release, there's a whole new wave of folks who "won't touch EA crap," "aren't gonna fund a game that'll get dropped and never leave EA," "don't want to bother with an unfinished product," and so forth that will take an interest in a title once the early-access flag has gone. A demo from way back in early stages of development has a substantial risk of alienating those potential new customers- not every dev will choose to take that risk.

It is a divisive topic, and there's no way to know for sure which one will be the bigger profit move for any given title. Even hindsight can't help, because there's no real way to go back to the decision point and look down "the road not taken" to make a comparison against.

At least we did seem to agree on one point in the end: Releasing a 1.0-updated demo at the same time as full release would at least be an improvement.

[frankycl]

Originally posted by deltahazer:

Wow. That is a LOT of hostility and aggression to unload on someone for expressing an opinion. (...)

Sorry, it wasn't meant hostile or to offend you in any way ! - It's just that I find it annoying and not very smart from those DEVs, etc. to do what you described, but so many act like this. (and it's a mere coincident that you were the one to whom I expressed my frustration .)
Maybe you aren't used very much to ironically or exaggerated used language ?

Anyway, it was/is only my own, personal opinion, too, so I have to appologize if you felt otherwise.

Originally posted by deltahazer:

(...)
A demo doesn't have that opportunity. If it leaves too bad an impression on the player, they just uninstall it and generally don't bother even visiting the listing again- unless they decide to visit the discussion forums and drop a stinker complaining about how awful "the game" was.

Yes, but why should this be different at the time when the demo was active, already (or for the people who played it at this time )? - Where's the difference between their experience and the (feared) experience when the game had (internally - and only perceptible for the DEVs) evolved ??

Originally posted by deltahazer:

When a game's in EA status, ...

A game released in EA is something completely different, imho, because the people (who already payed for it) expect that they get an improved (half-baked) game or that they can help/influence the improvement of it's developement; - and they can (or can not) whittness and value those improvements on the fly (if they play the updated builds constantly).

With a demo you can't do this - or expect this normally, because even if it's constantly updated, you'll always only get a glimps of the game, but never anything that's near the complete experience you can/could have with the full version.

Originally posted by deltahazer:

At least we did seem to agree on one point in the end: Releasing a 1.0-updated demo at the same time as full release would at least be an improvement.

Yes, totally agreed.

[deltahazer]

Originally posted by frankycl:

Originally posted by deltahazer:

Wow. That is a LOT of hostility and aggression to unload on someone for expressing an opinion. (...)

Sorry, it wasn't meant hostile or to offend you in any way ! - It's just that I find it annoying and not very smart from those DEVs, etc. to do what you described, but so many act like this. :cozybrawlhalla1: (and it's a mere coincident that you were the one to whom I expressed my frustration :cleanseal:.)
Maybe you aren't used very much to ironically or exaggerated used language ?

Anyway, it was/is only my own, personal opinion, too, so I have to appologize if you felt otherwise. :Smilingdemon:

No worries. Far from being unused to them-- I use them extensively myself in everyday conversation as well as online. ;) But it is a rare experience to encounter someone willing to apologize and throttle it back when called on it, and for that you earn a Like

As for the rest, we've both stated our cases out pretty clearly by now. How about we save the time that'd otherwise be spent on more typing and head to our respective watering holes for a relaxing beverage of choice? ;)

Keep on keepin' on

[frankycl]

Likewise

[FDR'sThinkTank]

I suppose if they made a new Demo they should make it so you have a truck and a highly explosive load you have to drive through a challenging area. The Demo could be a time trial with leaderboards. It gives players a sense of the game, but with harsh limits that don't give them the scope of exploration nor upgrades.

Even better would be if the Demo is actually a prelude to where the game picks up, with us broke down at Onyx station... so the challenging course could be an Asteroid Belt that exists next to Onyx.

I recently watched "Sorceror" (1977) and really dig the idea of tough terrain with an explosive load.

[deltahazer]

Originally posted by FDR'sThinkTank:

I suppose if they made a new Demo they should make it so you have a truck and a highly explosive load you have to drive through a challenging area. The Demo could be a time trial with leaderboards. It gives players a sense of the game, but with harsh limits that don't give them the scope of exploration nor upgrades.

Even better would be if the Demo is actually a prelude to where the game picks up, with us broke down at Onyx station... so the challenging course could be an Asteroid Belt that exists next to Onyx.

I recently watched "Sorceror" (1977) and really dig the idea of tough terrain with an explosive load.

I like that "prequel" idea. EXOR did that for Riftbreaker and I thought it fit rather well- they even had unique dialogue for it, voiced by the same actors doing the main release.

[FDR'sThinkTank]

Originally posted by deltahazer:

Originally posted by FDR'sThinkTank:

I suppose if they made a new Demo they should make it so you have a truck and a highly explosive load you have to drive through a challenging area. The Demo could be a time trial with leaderboards. It gives players a sense of the game, but with harsh limits that don't give them the scope of exploration nor upgrades.

Even better would be if the Demo is actually a prelude to where the game picks up, with us broke down at Onyx station... so the challenging course could be an Asteroid Belt that exists next to Onyx.

I recently watched "Sorceror" (1977) and really dig the idea of tough terrain with an explosive load.

I like that "prequel" idea. EXOR did that for Riftbreaker and I thought it fit rather well- they even had unique dialogue for it, voiced by the same actors doing the main release.

I could totally see Barrow coaching the players through the irresponsible delivery of poorly secured explosives without proper licensing to a resource black site in space that needs the explosives to clean up an accident! It would explain why Lucky Jay is so willing to cooperate with Barrow's shady endeavors in the game. When the player completes the Demo, Barrow then gives the player passage and the basic entry licenses they need for Star Truckin' in the official sectors. We pick up in game with the badly damaged truck having broken down just after entering Onyx System. It's a good opportunity to explain why the shutters were jammed on the truck to begin with. It sure as heck didn't come like that brand new, but for some reason the truck has a forged warranty and "new" identity in game.

[deltahazer]

Originally posted by FDR'sThinkTank:

Originally posted by deltahazer:

I like that "prequel" idea. EXOR did that for Riftbreaker and I thought it fit rather well- they even had unique dialogue for it, voiced by the same actors doing the main release.

I could totally see Barrow coaching the players through the irresponsible delivery of poorly secured explosives without proper licensing to a resource black site in space that needs the explosives to clean up an accident! It would explain why Lucky Jay is so willing to cooperate with Barrow's shady endeavors in the game. When the player completes the Demo, Barrow then gives the player passage and the basic entry licenses they need for Star Truckin' in the official sectors. We pick up in game with the badly damaged truck having broken down just after entering Onyx System. It's a good opportunity to explain why the shutters were jammed on the truck to begin with. It sure as heck didn't come like that brand new, but for some reason the truck has a forged warranty and "new" identity in game.

Heheheh. With a starting experience like that, "Lucky J" indeed ;)