What if Ashley was never born?

[Trigger-Happy]

What do you guys think? How will this affect Andrew's personality growing up? Perhaps better, or worse?

[AMARA♱]

I’m sure Andrew would be a lot better without her but we wouldn’t have the story/game we have now. That, and Andrew would still be with Julia.

[Juk]

Originally posted by AMARA!𖤐:

I’m sure Andrew would be a lot better without her but we wouldn’t have the story/game we have now. That, and Andrew would still be with Julia. :needy_tea:

andrew died in the appartment cuz there would be no ashley to help him escape

[Crowd]

It's an interesting question honestly. It would definitely have effect on quite a lot of things..... To start with it removes the part of Andrew's past where he is a child being forced to raise another, way more unruly, child.

However, let's not forget that Andrew still doesn't have the best moral compass even without Ashley. I agree that he would probably be a bit better off in the sense that he wouldn't have accidently killed someone as a kid, but let's not forget that the guy's moral compass tend to be less "I feel guilty because this is morally wrong" and more "I don't want to deal with the consequences of getting caught doing this". Don't get me wrong, he is not completely lacking in empathy. He can obviously feel bad about doing some things (see his freak-out about dealing with the cultist body and having to chop his head off to fit it in the fridge/freezer). But more often than not, his issues is more often shown to be with the consequences of getting caught, not as much the action themselves. (Example: Even as a kid he is more upset about the idea of being separated from Ashley and going to jail than he is about Nina being dead.) So I think there would still have been problems depending on what situations he might have encountered.

Ironically, if I read the implications of one of the preview clips for the 3rd episode correctly, he might only have started dating Julia to begin with because there was rumors about him and his sister. If Ashley doesn't exist, then neither does those rumors. So he might not have felt as inclined to even date Julia in the first place. Maybe he would have agreed if she musted up the courage and asked him out, but even then he seems rather uninterested in relationships when it has come up. Honestly he might even be dating Nina in an Ashley free timeline if she asked him out first.
Andrew's dream-sequence notes that he is not that upset about not seeing Julia again, and how that is the parts that bothers him more. Now if said uninterest is because of his obsession with Ashley, or just a disinterest in dating overall, I am not sure. I would assume it's more related to Ashley, given he gets frustrated about Ashley butting in on any relationships or interest he may-or-may-not show other girls. So in the end, it's honestly a toss-up if he would still be dating Julia, Nina, nobody at all or somebody else entierly in an Ashley-less timeline.

Then there is the mom, who would still bee the way she is..... which probably would have caused tension if Andrew ever tried stepping out of line of what perfect little picture she wanted. And I don't think anything would change about the father. He'd still be a depressed and rather apathic parent towards Andrew.

Honestly, with how emotionally neglecting the parents seems to be, Andrew would probably still have tendencies of looking for affections elsewhere.... Which risks him still developing unhealthy attatchhments. Just that it would be to another person that is not Ashley. So the risk of Andrew getting stuck a cycle of either unsuccessful relationships (because his clinginess and possessiveness scares potential partners away) or him getting stuck in a genuinely toxic/unhealthy one (like with Ashley, minus the incest) is still rather high.

[Juk]

Originally posted by Trigger-Happy:

What do you guys think? How will this affect Andrew's personality growing up? Perhaps better, or worse?

well another child was born and mb he was like ashley so the story wouldn't change

[five(real)]

andrew wouldnt be anyone without ashley (thats just how i think abt it ^^)

[MunitionerBen]

Maybe Andrew will starve to death lonely in the flat abandoned by Mom and Dad.

[Crowd]

Originally posted by Juk:

andrew died in the appartment cuz there would be no ashley to help him escape

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

Maybe Andrew will starve to death lonely in the flat abandoned by Mom and Dad.

I wonder if he would even have gotten caught up in all that if Ashley hadn't been a thing.... I guess it depends on how one reads the mother's characterisation. Because sure, she could still have sold Andrew off like she did both her kids in the game, but general selfishness and narcissism aside, the bigger issue for the mother seems to have been Ashley (because the girl stands out in a way that can not be seen as normal, and that reflects badly on the mom) and how the kids killed another child (even if we know it was accidental). If we remove the Nina-incident from the equation, and remove the very obvious "problem child" (in the mother's eyes), does she still sell off Andrew?

Another interesting question would be regarding if the mother and father might have gotten caught up in the whole thing as well instead, since they now only have one person leverage with/potentially sell off. The apartment the game starts in is the same as from when Andrew and Ashley where kids, so it's not like they where moved there for the "quarantine". So the building itself was likely chosen to be used for the organ-smuggling or whatever they where doing. It makes me curious how the parents got out of being part of it to start with in the game. But point being; Depending on the circumstances that allowed the parents to get out of being part of it in the game, Andrew might actually get stuck in the apartment WITH his parents rather than just alone. Which could have been an interesting alternative.

[Juk]

Originally posted by Crowd:

Originally posted by Juk:

andrew died in the appartment cuz there would be no ashley to help him escape

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

Maybe Andrew will starve to death lonely in the flat abandoned by Mom and Dad.

I wonder if he would even have gotten caught up in all that if Ashley hadn't been a thing.... I guess it depends on how one reads the mother's characterisation. Because sure, she could still have sold Andrew off like she did both her kids in the game, but general selfishness and narcissism aside, the bigger issue for the mother seems to have been Ashley (because the girl stands out in a way that can not be seen as normal, and that reflects badly on the mom) and how the kids killed another child (even if we know it was accidental). If we remove the Nina-incident from the equation, and remove the very obvious "problem child" (in the mother's eyes), does she still sell off Andrew?

Another interesting question would be regarding if the mother and father might have gotten caught up in the whole thing as well instead, since they now only have one person leverage with/potentially sell off. The apartment the game starts in is the same as from when Andrew and Ashley where kids, so it's not like they where moved there for the "quarantine". So the building itself was likely chosen to be used for the organ-smuggling or whatever they where doing. It makes me curious how the parents got out of being part of it to start with in the game. But point being; Depending on the circumstances that allowed the parents to get out of being part of it in the game, Andrew might actually get stuck in the apartment WITH his parents rather than just alone. Which could have been an interesting alternative.

parents could take andrew if they wanted but they sold all their children+father even doesnt know his son's name(u can see it in dialog at the balcony in andrew's dream right before blood pact) and i guess we can come to this question later after full game release cuz it will show us more of the sibling's past+their relations with parents

[MunitionerBen]

Originally posted by Crowd:

Originally posted by Juk:

andrew died in the appartment cuz there would be no ashley to help him escape

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

Maybe Andrew will starve to death lonely in the flat abandoned by Mom and Dad.

I wonder if he would even have gotten caught up in all that if Ashley hadn't been a thing.... I guess it depends on how one reads the mother's characterisation. Because sure, she could still have sold Andrew off like she did both her kids in the game, but general selfishness and narcissism aside, the bigger issue for the mother seems to have been Ashley (because the girl stands out in a way that can not be seen as normal, and that reflects badly on the mom) and how the kids killed another child (even if we know it was accidental). If we remove the Nina-incident from the equation, and remove the very obvious "problem child" (in the mother's eyes), does she still sell off Andrew?

Another interesting question would be regarding if the mother and father might have gotten caught up in the whole thing as well instead, since they now only have one person leverage with/potentially sell off. The apartment the game starts in is the same as from when Andrew and Ashley where kids, so it's not like they where moved there for the "quarantine". So the building itself was likely chosen to be used for the organ-smuggling or whatever they where doing. It makes me curious how the parents got out of being part of it to start with in the game. But point being; Depending on the circumstances that allowed the parents to get out of being part of it in the game, Andrew might actually get stuck in the apartment WITH his parents rather than just alone. Which could have been an interesting alternative.

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

[Juk]

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

Originally posted by Crowd:

I wonder if he would even have gotten caught up in all that if Ashley hadn't been a thing.... I guess it depends on how one reads the mother's characterisation. Because sure, she could still have sold Andrew off like she did both her kids in the game, but general selfishness and narcissism aside, the bigger issue for the mother seems to have been Ashley (because the girl stands out in a way that can not be seen as normal, and that reflects badly on the mom) and how the kids killed another child (even if we know it was accidental). If we remove the Nina-incident from the equation, and remove the very obvious "problem child" (in the mother's eyes), does she still sell off Andrew?

Another interesting question would be regarding if the mother and father might have gotten caught up in the whole thing as well instead, since they now only have one person leverage with/potentially sell off. The apartment the game starts in is the same as from when Andrew and Ashley where kids, so it's not like they where moved there for the "quarantine". So the building itself was likely chosen to be used for the organ-smuggling or whatever they where doing. It makes me curious how the parents got out of being part of it to start with in the game. But point being; Depending on the circumstances that allowed the parents to get out of being part of it in the game, Andrew might actually get stuck in the apartment WITH his parents rather than just alone. Which could have been an interesting alternative.

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

Originally posted by Crowd:

I wonder if he would even have gotten caught up in all that if Ashley hadn't been a thing.... I guess it depends on how one reads the mother's characterisation. Because sure, she could still have sold Andrew off like she did both her kids in the game, but general selfishness and narcissism aside, the bigger issue for the mother seems to have been Ashley (because the girl stands out in a way that can not be seen as normal, and that reflects badly on the mom) and how the kids killed another child (even if we know it was accidental). If we remove the Nina-incident from the equation, and remove the very obvious "problem child" (in the mother's eyes), does she still sell off Andrew?

Another interesting question would be regarding if the mother and father might have gotten caught up in the whole thing as well instead, since they now only have one person leverage with/potentially sell off. The apartment the game starts in is the same as from when Andrew and Ashley where kids, so it's not like they where moved there for the "quarantine". So the building itself was likely chosen to be used for the organ-smuggling or whatever they where doing. It makes me curious how the parents got out of being part of it to start with in the game. But point being; Depending on the circumstances that allowed the parents to get out of being part of it in the game, Andrew might actually get stuck in the apartment WITH his parents rather than just alone. Which could have been an interesting alternative.

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

no ashley means no andy, he would be Andrew or how his dad called him "Anders"

[MunitionerBen]

Originally posted by Juk:

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

no ashley means no andy, he would be Andrew or how his dad called him "Anders"

Okay，《The coffin of Anders with Dad and Mom》.🤣（But…How strange the dialog box become，have you noticed？）

[Crowd]

Originally posted by Juk:

parents could take andrew if they wanted but they sold all their children

Oh I don't argue that the parents aren't horrible parents, but "in all fairness" (and I hate saying that about parents selling off their kids) it kinda had to be both or neither. The siblings are co-dependant and unhealthily attached. If they had tried leaving only Ashley there alone, Andrew would have caused trouble trying to get her out.

Originally posted by Juk:

+father even doesnt know his son's name(u can see it in dialog at the balcony in andrew's dream right before blood pact)

Yeah the father seems really depressed and out of it in that scene. Even so the fact that he can't remember his own son's name is a really bad look. He does remember it later in the game for what's that's worth (i.e. not a lot, but it's interesting to note the difference in the Father's mental-state then and now).

Originally posted by Juk:

and i guess we can come to this question later after full game release cuz it will show us more of the sibling's past+their relations with parents

Yeah I agree with this. For all we know the parents could have been even worse... or... maybe "worse" is a funny word because I'm not sure how much lower they can sink than "tried selling their kids off to their death". But the point was supposed to be that yeah, more information is kinda needed to clarify the relationship between the siblings and the parents, as well as how the siblings was raised.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.

Yeah the potential is likely still there regardless of it it's one or two, I'm mostly curious how much the outward image and the mother's clear outright dislike for Ashley is part of the motivation. Not saying she never would have sold Andrew off if it was only him, but still curious if there would be a difference in treatment.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

While the dynamics would be very different since it would be a "mom, dad and son" dynamic rather than a sibling one, I can ironically see such scenario hit a lot of similar beats story-wise since the mother seems to actually have quite a bit in common with Ashley, to the point where her soul seems to have been a "tar" soul that didn't get the chance to hatch/bloom.

Originally posted by Juk:

no ashley means no andy, he would be Andrew or how his dad called him "Anders"

Right, "Anders" was what the dad called him. I didn't remember at the top of my head what he called Andrew in the flashback. .......Though couldn't Anders technically be a nickname? I mean given Andrew corrects him (if I don't remember wrong) I would assume it isn't and that the dad was just so out of it or uncaring that he got the name wrong (or depressed...... I mean it did sound like the guy was legit considering jumping off that balcony before getting himself together). But yeah you have a good point that without Ashley, there would be no "Andy".


Maybe "The Coffin of Mom, Dad and Anders" since the mom would likely be the driving factor in that dynamic? /jk


But yeah as Juk said earlier, it might be easier to make a judgement after the full game is released, since then we'll potentially have more information about the parents to work with.

[MunitionerBen]

Originally posted by Crowd:

Originally posted by Juk:

parents could take andrew if they wanted but they sold all their children

Oh I don't argue that the parents aren't horrible parents, but "in all fairness" (and I hate saying that about parents selling off their kids) it kinda had to be both or neither. The siblings are co-dependant and unhealthily attached. If they had tried leaving only Ashley there alone, Andrew would have caused trouble trying to get her out.

Originally posted by Juk:

+father even doesnt know his son's name(u can see it in dialog at the balcony in andrew's dream right before blood pact)

Yeah the father seems really depressed and out of it in that scene. Even so the fact that he can't remember his own son's name is a really bad look. He does remember it later in the game for what's that's worth (i.e. not a lot, but it's interesting to note the difference in the Father's mental-state then and now).

Originally posted by Juk:

and i guess we can come to this question later after full game release cuz it will show us more of the sibling's past+their relations with parents

Yeah I agree with this. For all we know the parents could have been even worse... or... maybe "worse" is a funny word because I'm not sure how much lower they can sink than "tried selling their kids off to their death". But the point was supposed to be that yeah, more information is kinda needed to clarify the relationship between the siblings and the parents, as well as how the siblings was raised.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.

Yeah the potential is likely still there regardless of it it's one or two, I'm mostly curious how much the outward image and the mother's clear outright dislike for Ashley is part of the motivation. Not saying she never would have sold Andrew off if it was only him, but still curious if there would be a difference in treatment.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

While the dynamics would be very different since it would be a "mom, dad and son" dynamic rather than a sibling one, I can ironically see such scenario hit a lot of similar beats story-wise since the mother seems to actually have quite a bit in common with Ashley, to the point where her soul seems to have been a "tar" soul that didn't get the chance to hatch/bloom.

Originally posted by Juk:

no ashley means no andy, he would be Andrew or how his dad called him "Anders"

Right, "Anders" was what the dad called him. I didn't remember at the top of my head what he called Andrew in the flashback. .......Though couldn't Anders technically be a nickname? I mean given Andrew corrects him (if I don't remember wrong) I would assume it isn't and that the dad was just so out of it or uncaring that he got the name wrong (or depressed...... I mean it did sound like the guy was legit considering jumping off that balcony before getting himself together). But yeah you have a good point that without Ashley, there would be no "Andy".


Maybe "The Coffin of Mom, Dad and Anders" since the mom would likely be the driving factor in that dynamic? /jk


But yeah as Juk said earlier, it might be easier to make a judgement after the full game is released, since then we'll potentially have more information about the parents to work with.

Their family environment is indeed very bad, it doesn't matter whether they only have Andrew or Ashley, or both. And I think in this story, whether it's Andrew or Ashley, they can't survive if their parents only give birth to either of them. But when their parents gave birth to both, they actually survived. (Perhaps this can be called "Two negative make a positive")

[Juk]

Originally posted by Crowd:

Originally posted by Juk:

parents could take andrew if they wanted but they sold all their children

Oh I don't argue that the parents aren't horrible parents, but "in all fairness" (and I hate saying that about parents selling off their kids) it kinda had to be both or neither. The siblings are co-dependant and unhealthily attached. If they had tried leaving only Ashley there alone, Andrew would have caused trouble trying to get her out.

Originally posted by Juk:

+father even doesnt know his son's name(u can see it in dialog at the balcony in andrew's dream right before blood pact)

Yeah the father seems really depressed and out of it in that scene. Even so the fact that he can't remember his own son's name is a really bad look. He does remember it later in the game for what's that's worth (i.e. not a lot, but it's interesting to note the difference in the Father's mental-state then and now).

Originally posted by Juk:

and i guess we can come to this question later after full game release cuz it will show us more of the sibling's past+their relations with parents

Yeah I agree with this. For all we know the parents could have been even worse... or... maybe "worse" is a funny word because I'm not sure how much lower they can sink than "tried selling their kids off to their death". But the point was supposed to be that yeah, more information is kinda needed to clarify the relationship between the siblings and the parents, as well as how the siblings was raised.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

It's certainly that mom and dad are heartless enough to abandon their children whatever they have one or two.

Yeah the potential is likely still there regardless of it it's one or two, I'm mostly curious how much the outward image and the mother's clear outright dislike for Ashley is part of the motivation. Not saying she never would have sold Andrew off if it was only him, but still curious if there would be a difference in treatment.

Originally posted by MunitionerBen:

As to whether mom and dad will be sold organs too，I think it has beyond the scout of the story.（Maybe it can be called 《the coffin of Andy and Dad and Mom》）

While the dynamics would be very different since it would be a "mom, dad and son" dynamic rather than a sibling one, I can ironically see such scenario hit a lot of similar beats story-wise since the mother seems to actually have quite a bit in common with Ashley, to the point where her soul seems to have been a "tar" soul that didn't get the chance to hatch/bloom.

Originally posted by Juk:

no ashley means no andy, he would be Andrew or how his dad called him "Anders"

Right, "Anders" was what the dad called him. I didn't remember at the top of my head what he called Andrew in the flashback. .......Though couldn't Anders technically be a nickname? I mean given Andrew corrects him (if I don't remember wrong) I would assume it isn't and that the dad was just so out of it or uncaring that he got the name wrong (or depressed...... I mean it did sound like the guy was legit considering jumping off that balcony before getting himself together). But yeah you have a good point that without Ashley, there would be no "Andy".


Maybe "The Coffin of Mom, Dad and Anders" since the mom would likely be the driving factor in that dynamic? /jk


But yeah as Juk said earlier, it might be easier to make a judgement after the full game is released, since then we'll potentially have more information about the parents to work with.

well i replayed this moment to be correct and dad calls him Anders and then Andy says that his name is Andrew

[Crowd]

Originally posted by Juk:

well i replayed this moment to be correct and dad calls him Anders and then Andy says that his name is Andrew

Okay.
I guess I could make a note that Andrew sometimes corrects Ashley when she calls him Andy, or tells her not to call her that, but that doesn't seem to be in the same way he corrects the dad. Not to mention that would kinda be arguing for arguments sake since I do agree with the reading that it is simply the father misremembering Andrews name. Which is really sad.