PSA Regarding Hinagiku & Tension Card "Retake"

[Jynx]

Just a little note for anyone looking to invest in this because it sounds like it'd work great for a deflect DPS Hina;

After some testing following noticing the card not activating on the left during battle - using manual Counterattack & Hina's unique one on Primary Attack - I discovered that "Retake"'s effect doesn't actually impact her Primary Counterattack damage nor even treat the move itself as a Counterattack.
Despite other cards with similar wording activating on Primary's Deflect Counter, like Maximization (which is one of the quickest ways to apply Control, so it seems like an applicable counterpart, oddly enough) Retake doesn't seem to treat the unique Deflect as a Counterattack.
I'm guessing this is likely because it's treated as a "Deflect Counterattack" for the damage portion, to allow Hina's unique card to function individually. Universal Counterattack activates Retake properly as you'd expect (as it has for the past versions) and adds the extra damage. There are currently in-game distinctions for Deflect Counterattack cards (such as the newer "Tiger!" card, so those are definitely much clearer than others; however, most "Counterattack" cards still work with Hina's Primary, so a lot of cases like "Retake" seem to be very few and far between.

Apologies if this was at all very obious, I just wanted to share this little bit of info since the distinction may not be super clear for newer players, so I hope it helped anyone wondering about this and maybe saved you investing any hard earned cash on Retake with Hina in mind!

[Vesperion]

Well this is disapointing as in theory both counters are the same imo.

As Retake was showing up when i used Hina i thought that it did also trigger during her special counter but it was in fact the counter of the other chars in the team after i tested it with Solo Hina and her Deflect counter did not trigger the TC while the "spacebar counter" did trigger the TC.

That is totally insane as the outcome is the same in the end imo as the enemy is stunned and we can attack him right after so why differntiate between these two now all of a sudden?

I hope the devs will look into this again and make it more clear as the TC "Maximization" makes no difference between counterattack; dodge counterattack or deflect counterattack.

So either the devs make it more clear what kind of counter triggers a TC or simplify it so that all counterattacks trigger a TC with a counterattack requirement... have to think now what kind of TC i should use if the dmg is not increased with Retake by now...

I know there is the "Tiger!" but imo it is much harder to setup as you need the specific role from Patimon so that now we not only hunt for "the right substats" for a char but now also we hunt for the "right role + substats" just so that a specific TC effect is triggered... this is beyond my understanding why the devs decided to bring this.

[76561198366362861]

isnt it because the "counterattack" on her 1st is literrally a parry with no damage with it?

[Vesperion]

Originally posted by lantang_puno:

isnt it because the "counterattack" on her 1st is literrally a parry with no damage with it?

Both versions end with the same result in case of Hina just that her Deflect counter is needed to charge her Strategy skill (next to a full charged primary) while for every other char when excecuted correctly the character takes no damage regardless if it´s a counterattack; dodge counterattack or a deflect counterattack and attacks the enemy in return while negating the attack entirely.

This is why i not really understand why it is treated differently now if the outcome of all counterattacks is basically the same of the char negating the enemies attack and damaging him in return with the only exception of ranged chars where the counterattack can miss if standing to far away from the enemy.

[76561198366362861]

Originally posted by Vesperion:

Both versions end with the same result in case of Hina just that her Deflect counter is needed to charge her Strategy skill (next to a full charged primary) while for every other char when excecuted correctly the character takes no damage regardless if it´s a counterattack; dodge counterattack or a deflect counterattack and attacks the enemy in return while negating the attack entirely.

This is why i not really understand why it is treated differently now if the outcome of all counterattacks is basically the same of the char negating the enemies attack and damaging him in return with the only exception of ranged chars where the counterattack can miss if standing to far away from the enemy.

i think its because basically is not technically
with hina unique parry it doesnt do any attack you have to press button to attack
generic counterattack (which hina also have) automatically do damage

[Vesperion]

Originally posted by lantang_puno:

Originally posted by Vesperion:

Both versions end with the same result in case of Hina just that her Deflect counter is needed to charge her Strategy skill (next to a full charged primary) while for every other char when excecuted correctly the character takes no damage regardless if it´s a counterattack; dodge counterattack or a deflect counterattack and attacks the enemy in return while negating the attack entirely.

This is why i not really understand why it is treated differently now if the outcome of all counterattacks is basically the same of the char negating the enemies attack and damaging him in return with the only exception of ranged chars where the counterattack can miss if standing to far away from the enemy.

i think its because basically is not technically
with hina unique parry it doesnt do any attack you have to press button to attack
generic counterattack (which hina also have) automatically do damage

This may be but you can still mess her unique counter up if you are either in the middle of a normal attack animation; start it to late so that she is not in the deflect stance to trigger it or simply run out of stamina so she ends it and does a charged normal attack instead so it´s not just some sort of "Press and hold the left mouse button and forget" thing and does require some skill to use it properly.

Sure it´s much easier to use in compare to the "spacebar counter" that does trigger the TC due of a tighter window for perfect excecution but it still doesn´t change the fact that the TC only says "increase counterattack muliplier" is to vague/simplified so this card maybe was used by a lot of players for chars that not even can trigger it´s effect at all cus the countertype is not the right one.

And if the devs should fear again that it would make a certain char or gameplay to difficult they could just set some sort of timer before the TC could trigger again like for example "Effect usable again after 5 seconds passed since last use" BUT this could then mess up if your team triggers the effect and so can "steal it".

So devs need to either make it more clear what triggers a card if there are multiple scenarios/versions of some attacks/counters to take them into account or simplify/unite them and reduce the effect of the card in return to balance stuff out.

[Luma]

TC: "Increase counterattack damage"
> Hina's charge deflect doesn't do damage
= Nothing to increase

It's as simple as that.

[Jynx]

Originally posted by Luma:

TC: "Increase counterattack damage"
> Hina's charge deflect doesn't do damage
= Nothing to increase

It's as simple as that.

I mean yeah, absolutely, if you're explaining how the card works. My point here was more to clear up for anyone that it doesn't affect it, is all, since it's a two-part move and doesn't treat the deflect attack itself as a counterattack - mostly so we can save newer players the cash they might have spent on upgrading it.

[Luma]

Originally posted by Jynx:

I mean yeah, absolutely, if you're explaining how the card works. My point here was more to clear up for anyone that it doesn't affect it, is all, since it's a two-part move and doesn't treat the deflect attack itself as a counterattack - mostly so we can save newer players the cash they might have spent on upgrading it. :ER_Bear:

Ah yes sorry if the lack of quote in my message mislead you, but i was actually answering to Vesperion!