Blackwell Epiphany ending (Spoilers!)

[chris]

So i was looking forward to this game a lot and it was a very bittersweet feeling for me to play the final blackwell game. I took my time (my first playtrough took me 9 hours) and i think i enjoyed it more by drawing it out a little.

I had a feeling that Madeline might be behind the ghosts dying after talking to her for the first time, thought i expected it to be because she went berserk after losing her host and being in the void for so long.
What really surprised me was when she revealed that she had been the reason why Lauren and Rosa's grandma went mad and had to die. That was the point where i lost my sympathy for her, since i really liked Lauren, even if she wasnt as invested in the soulsaving business as Rosa.

The fact that Rosa had to die in the end may make sense storywise, but i felt it was so unfair after saving every single lost soul on the planet(except joey).
I LOVE Rosa and Joey as a team, and i had hoped they really would get a vacation and after a while start doing their thing again. Knowing that Madeline caused the breakdowns in her family, they wouldn't have to do it in fear of rosa going crazy anymore, but purely because they belive in the work they're doing.

I really hope that turning Joey into a living, breathing Person again will give him the ability to move on eventually and that he wont forget about rosa, or rather, the blackwells, comletely.

So, the Ending for me was heartbreaking, it wasnt the Ending i wanted, but the one the Story needed. Nothing can last forever, and it is better to end Blackwell in a fulfilling way instead of drawing it out endlessly.

So thank you Dave, for making this awesome Series happen, for this awesome last game - and damn you for making me cry like a little girl.

[Loot Hunter]

Początkowo opublikowane przez CykutaVirosa:

(* minor nitpick - that was father Michael Cooper, not father Ullman. Father Ullman is the other priest, the one sitting inside the Grace Church proper, who at first pretended not to know Michael and told you to keep your voice down. )

Damn, I mixed them up. In my previous comment I meant Cooper.

[BryonSmothers3DX]

Wow Bittersweet ending indeed. I am so happy and pissed off about this ending. I have come to love the Rosa and Joey partnership. Killing off Rosa almost feels like ripping my heart out.

[♥ teensy ♥]

The wonderful thing about her turning Joey human is that we know for SURE he will never go the way that Madeline did, going insane because he's living forever at the mercy of some random person who just happens to be next in line.

Honestly? I sympathized with Madeline. I think anyone would want to die when they're faced with living forever, especially after being locked in what is essentially solitary confinement for decades and facing the possibility of that happening again. I'm surprised Joey didn't go insane with Rosa's aunt being a vegetable.

[Popo]

OMG!! She died so young, at thirty four years old, so sad.
She born near to my birthday.

[Tominator]

I fully agree with OP. It made sense story-wise, but dang my emotions :(

[Digus]

Just finished playing the game last night.
The game as a whole was quite enjoyable, probably one of the best in the series.
But though I didn't dislike the final act, I also thought it was out of place.
When I saw the explanation Benjiro gave about the vortex I was like "What is this now? Ghostbusters or the Blackwell series?"
But some other things were great, like Rosa with her aunt. That was a great closure I was not expecting.

The thing that bothered me the most was what the vortex caused. Everyone in the city just passed out. Come on, don't we know the consequences of that? Car crashes, derailed trains, people falling to their deaths. And it was not a nicely "need to sleep" and people stopped to lay down. Dr. Quentin just dropped, so it must have happened to everyone. Rosa saved all the spooks but soon there would be a lot more from fires, and all sort of accidents that would have happened.
But in the end Rosa just tell. "Everyone will be back to normal, it will be like it never happened"
What is this? A bad The Simpsons episode?

Also, if this happened only in New York, wouldn't there be tons of people taking in the phones or streaming with/for people out of New York? The rest of the world would not have noticed?
If the intention was to make it so nothing ever happen, create a better set up. It happened to everyone in the world. They would be like zombies, not passed out and dropped on the floor.
But in the end, that was not even needed. Rosa cloud have escaped with people still wake with a couple of extra puzzles. "People will soon die" is just enough as a plot device, they don't need to pass out before the climax to make a point. Just make the vortex getting bigger.

Also, everything about this could have been better built up. There was so much new information at the end, some hints of knowledge could have been given through out the game.

I did like that the plot of this game was not about hunting soul vampires. I didn't like it on the last game. The end of fourth game here Rosa said it was going to hunt them was probably what made me wait so much to play this episode.
But I also get that people were upset that it was not a part of this game at all. And some things do not make sense, like how Gavin said they would come for him, and in the end it was Madelin and he didn't even knew about her.

Some other stuff did not make sense with the story.
Madeline was trying to posses other bestowers but couldn't. When she came back, she was bound to a new one. Did she chose the person? Or was he related to Jocelyn Contis?
And just by chance it was the grandfather of a weaker soul she was already praying upon?
She said the grace group was just the nearest source of power she could grab.
But it was only a month before the game that she bound to father Michael and started to manipulate him to kill the group and get their souls. But Heather and Peter was already dead. It was just by chance? Did Madeline somehow caused there deaths? how? that is not explained.

I did like though, that since Rosa got really over power, she used this power to be the best ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bestower of all time. "Remember that we needed at least a whole night to convince a ghost to move on one by one? Well, I did that for ALL OF THEM in seconds." That is commitment.
Also, by here words, we can believe that since ALL THE GHOSTS moved on, there is not a single Bestowers left in the world.

So, to conclude. I know the game creator wanted to end the series, but this end with resurrection(Joey did, Gavin tried), ghosts coming back from the light (Joey and Louren did), we can easily have "The Blackwell Comeback" if he want too.
Here is my suggestion:
So Joey goes on with his life, forget about things, get married, have a kid, everything is normal.
Live goes on, new people die everyday, some don't move on. New bound between Bestowers and ghost start to form because new souls need to move on. (Madeline said that this is why bestowers were created, that is a humanity need)
Then what happen? Joey's wife becomes a Bestower. :o
We play as Joey helping his wife, as he remember stuff. But he don't see nor we can control the ghost. The wife is trying but her ghost is really reluctant on following Joey instructions.
We save the first spoke and just learn the soul-vamp society is at it again.
We learn they are trying to manipulate stuff to become bestowers themselves, since so many new bounds are forming.
Things start to become really dangerous and Joey remember how Rosa become so powerful, and that only she could stop them. So he try the ritual on himself and he become a bestower, hopping that his previous bond with Rosa would bring here back from the light, since he also came back from the light to become a guide.
So that happen, really touching moment on the reunion, they both solve the soul-vamp treat in NY and the game end like this, Joey a Bestower and Rosa a really powerfull guide.
Then we can have more games, some more games and in the end Rosa is also resurrected and got to live as Joey friend and family. :D

[Pigeon Pecking Keyboard]

I agreed with the various plotholes. If they stick to a smaller scale, it might have been better. The games are not perfect. But my emotions. They got me, despite the suspension of belief.

[clara.reve]

I'm commenting in 2021!
The Blackwell series as a whole are amazing, but I'm sorry, I was very disappointed by the ending. It came as a shock. Literally my first thought was "I didn't play five games just to have Rosa die." To me this is the equivalent of "and it was all a dream" ending. Because her death seemed meaningless. If this is the message the developers wanted to convey, that's fine, but it doesn't sit well with me.
Joey for his part, doesn't look too happy being alive either. He says life is the most important thing, but looks kind of restless and lonely. This is what Rosa sacrificed her life for?
Apparently in this universe there is no gratitude :( Nobody thanks Rosa for saving them and their loved ones, as you can see in her emails, and everybody forgets before they might have had the chance to. Perhaps I might just prefer death too.
Finally, a point reiterated here; I still had questions at the end. Like, who shot George Ostin? Who even is Joey??? As a person, and also for some plot holes. He may have been the last person saved by Madeleine but why couldn't he pass through the light then??
However ... like I said the series as a whole and a point and click game was amazing, and gave me back the fun and motivation that I experienced all those years ago with these kinds of games. And now I will check out the others. Thank you.

I agreed most with this comment:

Początkowo opublikowane przez FilliesAreBest♥:

Wow, just wow. Skimming through some of the comments, I really can't believe that people think the ending was good. The best ending would have been for Joey to allowed to pass on. As for Rosa, she became quite the tragic heroine, she dies yet a lost soul (Joey) gets a second chance at life? Where's her chance!? She was denied her opportunity to live out her life. The ending was terrible in my opinion - I would've the ending been Rosa disappearing far away in the night leaving her troubled life in the past or grow old, reminisce and telling her grandkids about her life. I really liked this last chapter, the HUGE ambition. The puzzles were decent and even fun. The story (up until the finale) was just amazing like a good book. But that ending really sucked the life of the series.

[Pigeon Pecking Keyboard]

I like that they did something less trope-derived.

I would have liked Joey to end up with the aunt rather than Rosa, they have a deeper connection. However, the aunt just ended up in a facility (If I recall correctly). Life is harsh. Life isn't fair.

[Noob Herder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez clara.reve:

I'm commenting in 2021!
The Blackwell series as a whole are amazing, but I'm sorry, I was very disappointed by the ending. It came as a shock. Literally my first thought was "I didn't play five games just to have Rosa die." To me this is the equivalent of "and it was all a dream" ending. Because her death seemed meaningless. If this is the message the developers wanted to convey, that's fine, but it doesn't sit well with me.
Joey for his part, doesn't look too happy being alive either. He says life is the most important thing, but looks kind of restless and lonely. This is what Rosa sacrificed her life for?
Apparently in this universe there is no gratitude :( Nobody thanks Rosa for saving them and their loved ones, as you can see in her emails, and everybody forgets before they might have had the chance to. Perhaps I might just prefer death too.
Finally, a point reiterated here; I still had questions at the end. Like, who shot George Ostin? Who even is Joey??? As a person, and also for some plot holes. He may have been the last person saved by Madeleine but why couldn't he pass through the light then??
However ... like I said the series as a whole and a point and click game was amazing, and gave me back the fun and motivation that I experienced all those years ago with these kinds of games. And now I will check out the others. Thank you.

Thank you, I am most honored that someone shares a similar viewpoint, and very eloquently put - a lot of the times I fail to convey or fully express my thoughts.
That said, I typically am not one for a "happy ending", but this series did a number on me, not gonna lie, the ending left me with a numb feeling, that I couldn't shake from my mind for about a week or two. The story was so captivating, and the characters came to grow on me, it truly felt as if I had lost someone. Overall it was a memorable experience.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pigeon, formerly noble:

I like that they did something less trope-derived.

I would have liked Joey to end up with the aunt rather than Rosa, they have a deeper connection. However, the aunt just ended up in a facility (If I recall correctly). Life is harsh. Life isn't fair.

While i'm totally fine not following tropes, I feel the finale could have had multiple endings depending on the player's choice.

[mafon2]

I don't hate the ending, it does nothing for me (the worst thing the story can do). It's wasted potential that bothers me.

So out of left field. No consistency.

[o4zloiroman]

I felt like the ending was the sereies' Reichenbach Falls. A full stop on the story with no way to continue it.

Devs wanted to move on to different titles and characters, and instead of giving Rosa and Joey a proper, deserving ending, they focused on making sure there would be no way to create a direct sequel to the game.

The short moments of exposition Joey was allowed to give were spent with him explaning that he's DEFINITELY not a medium. It doesn't matter if someone died, someone lives; It's not fair to the characters to end them like this.

[Mr.Android]

I just finished the game and I must say I liked all the endings of the other Blackwell games. The ending of Blackwell Epiphany is really bad. Rosa is dead. Ok. But Joey becomes human again?! Why? A few seconds ago you can see that Joey wants to move on and then the developers decide to let him become human again? In all the games you can see that Joey doesn't like the modern world. In addition he has no job, no money, no friends and no official identity because he died many years ago.

Rosa and Joey should have moved on together. It is really sad that the "legacy" ends with such an ending.

At least Dave should give us now a nice Joey Mallone sequel.

[ezrashark]

I just finished the entire series in 2023 and enjoyed it a lot. However despite the overall quality of the games and Epiphany in particular, I was severely disappointed in the ending. I honestly loathe the ending. This is unfortunate since I think everything leading up to the twist is quite excellent and easily the best part of the whole series. Many have pointed out the problems of loose ends and the inconsistent scaling of the ending. Though I agree with these comments I think they aren't even the core issues. I strongly dislike the fate of both Rosa and Joey. It's not that I can't stomach "sad endings", for I had played games with arguably more tragic ends, but I think the ending simply go against the oversall story of Epiphany and the entire series. In fact, this is probably the worst possible ending I can think of, other than ending the game with Madeline sucessfully taking over Rosa's body.

It simply makes no sense to have Rose die AND Joey resurrecting. It's the absolute worst combination and I would rather have them dying together in the soul explosion. What even is the point of Joey being revived? Even if he can somehow get used to and survives in this modern NYC he doesn't even seem that happy to be alive, for good reasons. Also, what is the point of his "lesson" at the end? Throughout the series he never seems to question that "life is worth living." Sure he had some inner struggle over his seemingly perpertual duty but it's not like he specifically yearned to be alive again. He clearly preferred more to move on and be in peace, why was he brought back?

On the other hand, Rosa's death feels more f'ed up and disrespectful than tragic. It actually ruins both her and Joey's stories. Here is a young woman who had no childhood and lost all of her family and personal dream, life, and desire for a duty that she never asked for, being subjected to an unfortuante "curse" of the family. Remember, since Legacy Rosa and the player viewed her duty and power as a curse more than a gift. Her biggest fear was always ending up insane like her aunt and grandmother, and her entire storyline is her struggling to be strong and making huge personal sacrifices to maintain her duty as a Bestower to avoid the same fate. In Legacy Joey EXPLICITLY TOLD HER that her grandmother and aunt's mistakes were them not following their duty and that she must obey the supposed rules. Yet not only in the finale were we revealed that their fall to insanity had nothing to do with their choices, but despite all her struggles, the family "curse" caught her anyway? What the heck? What even is the point of her effort? I get that Rosa was not just doing it for herself but was doing the "greater good" for the lost souls and saving NYC from blowing up, but the story of her character essentially became a waste. It's not like she wasn't willing to risk her life before.

It's even made worse with the climax of Epiphany: we see Rosa's ultimate nightmare seemingly becoming real as the universe drives her insane, yet we are told that she has made herself stronger than her predecessors. Then through sheer will and desperation, Rosa seemingly was able to crawl through the edge of madness with the help from both Joey and Lauren, on both sides of the world. It was a beautiful moment to witness as Rosa finally reconnected and reconcilied with Lauren, who also rediscovered herself while Rosa and Joey's link and love were finally cemented and seemingly persevered. Then, Rosa just ... dies?! Succumbing to the same fate of her aunt and grandmother (yeah I know she wasn't trapped in an asylum for decades but that doesn't make it better). I got the "saving the world" thing, but this is not some childish superhero story; it's fundamentally the story of Rosa (and Joey). So her stronger will, struggle, and triumphant mentality utlimately just brought her the same suffering anyway? Nay her suffering is worse, for at least both her aunt and grandmother had truly lived. Rosa never got a chance to truly enjoy life at all ... yet that chance to enjoy live is given to Joey instead? If you want to reduce Rosa to a cliched Christ-like universal martyr then shouldn't SHE be the one to be resurrected as least? We don't even actually see Rosa's ghost actually moving on! She doesn't even get to enjoy a few final moments most of the lost ghosts have before moving on to the white light!!!

I know Rosa is supposed to die either way regardless of what will happen to Joey (even though it doesn't make sense that Joey promises to Rosa that he won't be like Madeline since Rosa was dying not casting him out like the Countess did), but the way the story is told is as if Rosa symbolically gave her life to Joey. This is actually very morbid in many ways. First, how could Joey even proceed to live with the lost and guilt he had? The only people we see him truly cared about were Dani, Lauren, and Rosa, and he was partly "responsible" for the death of the latter two, especially Rosa. I know it's not really his fault, but how could he not blame himself for his action leading to the death of Rosa, who already lost so much because of her link with Joey? Also, was Joey either a manipulator or an outright liar to Rosa in Legacy when he basically threatened Rosa into commiting to the duty of a Bestower by insisting her aunt and grandmother perished because of their refusal of their call? Even if we ignore such inconvenient details, it is still very twisted that Joey, relatively old in both mortal and ghost years, somehow is the one to be revived. I always view Joey more as a somewhat Father-like figure to Rosa than an equal generational partner (this is more obvious in the earlier games where Joey was more aggressive and dominant) and the other half of Lauren, so it's like watching a tortured child giving up their life for their parent ... Again nobody is satisifed by this. Rosa was the one who struggled over "life being worth living", not Joey.

Speaking of satisfaction the only characters who really have meaningful and satisfactory ends in Epiphany are Madeline (who got what she wanted), Mary, and maybe Lauren. All of the Grace Group got their soul torn apart. Benjiro just ran away. Durkin never shows up again. Poor Emil must be devastated and we never see him again. Even Kendra/KayKay's death actually proved to be somewhat pointless since she's not marked to begin with. Nor do their stories really help advance the development of Joey and Rosa. It's actually a very depressing and unearned finale as a whole.

Lastly, it's bizarre and almost dirty how Joey just go "I will try to enjoy life now" in the end. He was mostly just talking about himself. After all they have gone through across life and death and all the talk about their "link", he just dumps her ash in the river like Rosa did with Lauren's as if they barely know each other? How can he confidently talks about "l like being alive" when he just lost his loved ones? To put it simply, how is Joey actually more alive in the end than he was as a ghost? Just because strangers can see and touch him now? Sure he technically has the potential to know more people and live a fulfiling life but not at that moment. He has just lost everything, yet we see him suffer less over the death of Rosa than with Kendra. It unintentionally makes Joey appear almost selfish as if Rosa was just a tool for him to cheat death.

TLDR: Hated the ending. People may like it because it's sad but it completely ruined both Rosa and Joey's character developments and relationship. It also contradicts with the overall story completely.

[ezrashark]

Początkowo opublikowane przez FilliesAreBest♡:

Wow, just wow. Skimming through some of the comments, I really can't believe that people think the ending was good. The best ending would have been for Joey to allowed to pass on. As for Rosa, she became quite the tragic heroine, she dies yet a lost soul (Joey) gets a second chance at life? Where's her chance!? She was denied her opportunity to live out her life. The ending was terrible in my opinion - I would've the ending been Rosa disappearing far away in the night leaving her troubled life in the past or grow old, reminisce and telling her grandkids about her life. I really liked this last chapter, the HUGE ambition. The puzzles were decent and even fun. The story (up until the finale) was just amazing like a good book. But that ending really sucked the life of the series.

Replying in 2023 but I totally agree with you. I come across this very in-depth article that basically argues that on an unconscious and symbolic level, Joey "used" Rosa. I don't agree with everything it states and think it's a too extremely psychoanalytic on the details but it does bring up good points: https://www.lecturesalternatives.fr/2017/12/the-blackwell-franchise-joey-uses-rosangela.html