Personal Union Ending

[Chulainn]

Hi all,
Just a question about PU ... If i successfully form a PU any my ruler dies first, does the PU end?

Chu

[BoujeeTheAlan]

If your ruler dies while the lesser partner of the union is unhappy with you then it ends, if they like you it continues.

[Chulainn]

Wow that was fast :) Thank you!

[Xara]

You also have to be positive in prestige

Don't attack a country to install a personal union via claim throne if your leader is old or the country is already low in relations. You risk dying and ending the union while having gained aggression for nothing.

If you have done some prep work (improve relations to +100, married but NOT allied), that helps

If you have finished religious idea set and hire a diplomat, that helps (you will have throne claim, aggresion, and went to war penalties to work off)

If you can do quick after-work (send a gift, declare their rival your rival, start a war so you get 'in war bonus', attack their rival, attack someone to return cores to them, kill rebels in their provinces) that also helps

And of course start pushing improve relations to +200 asap

[BoujeeTheAlan]

I didn't know about the prestige, good to know. Still the relations issue is the hardest part.

[cz]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chulainn:

If i successfully form a PU any my ruler dies first

There is no 'first' or 'second'. Your monarch is the head of state of both nations now.

[Tabbel]

I am playing a Brittany Ironman game and I managed to pretty much eliminate France to a small corner and am in a personal union with Burgundy. Burgundy hates me (like -40ish influence with max influence from a diplomat already) and every time I scroll over the integrate, it says I can't integrate with a nation whose personal union will end. However, I have had my current leader die several times and never had the personal union end [Even though Burgundy was unhappy with me]

Are you sure Xara that is how it works?

[Xara]

Yes, I'm sure, so I can't think of any response apart from you must be mistaken about what your relations were at the time your monarch died. I have no idea what your message about "can't integrate with a nation whose personal union will end" is or is supposed to mean. I see nothing like that in my person union information.

[Xara]

Or is Burgundy in control of YOU?

[Yaldabaoth]

There is also a modifier called "A union only in name" that resets to -100 relations every year or so. If you have this, the union WILL end on your monarchs death no matter the actual relation with your PU. You get a cb to reinstate it though. I got this as England in a France PU after I converted to protestant (and France didn't). It's either that or the pretender rebels in France. I couldn't really care at that time as I had too many rebels of my own.
I abandoned that ironman game, 5 hours down the drain.

[Xara]

I've seen that modifier before. Not sure what causes it. I got it as Castille when I had a personal union with Navarre.... not something I wanted from a one province nation, but their king died like 3 years in before I could even get the chance to work them up to vassalization

There's also a few modifers for "backwards monarch" and "ignorant monarch" and the like. I think it happens if the lesser partner advances in a tech level before you do.

[Tabbel]

Nope - I am in control of it. And I have had now 4 leaders die while Burgundy had a negative opinion of me. I had positive prestige every time though, so maybe it needs both negative prestige and leader death to work? Or a dynasty to end? Either way - my union has not ended and monarch dying, even being at negative influence.

[Xara]

I don't know what to tell you then. I have 4 personal unions going right at this moment, and of them, a single one is currently in negative influence, and is slated "to end" if my monarch died this instant.

-I hope when you say "leaders" you're not talking about generals. How long has your PU been going that you've gone through 4 kings?

[Bandit17]

A PU is not guaranteed to end if your ruler dies and you have negative relations with PU partner. Maybe someone can find the exact triggers in the files but in my experience, with some PU members hating my guts with -200 relations, I have never lost a PU when my ruler died.

So my guess is it has more to do with prestige than anything else. I would guess your dynasty, if it would die out, might cause a break as well.

EU4 Wiki: If the senior partner's king dies while having negative prestige or negative relations with the junior partner, the junior partner will declare their independence and choose a new king. The senior partner will get a "restoration of union" casus belli to reclaim the throne for 60% warscore. A player can also declare war on their senior partner to gain their independence.

Not sure how accurate it is because, like I said, I've never lost a PU even with negative relations. So maybe military strength and prestige has a larger effect.

Edit: One last thing. I do know that a PU can also end if your lesser PU partner has a pretender sieze the throne. So always keep an eye out for that.

[Xara]

I had an oddity in my game. I had same dynasty as Hungary despite never marrying to them (mayhap it begins that way, I'd have to check). Apparently their king died and it should have caused a PU with me, but they instantly broke off and I got no message except a CB for 'restoring the union'. Well, okay then, so I did just that

[Tabbel]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Xara:

I don't know what to tell you then. I have 4 personal unions going right at this moment, and of them, a single one is currently in negative influence, and is slated "to end" if my monarch died this instant.

-I hope when you say "leaders" you're not talking about generals. How long has your PU been going that you've gone through 4 kings?

I have had this personal union going for about 100 years now. And I mean leaders, kings - come on give me some more credit than that haha. I have finally now just gotten Burgundy up into slightly positive influence during this new regency I have - but I can promise you, my king died with Burguny having a negative opinion of me and the union didn't end. The tooltip must be wrong. Try it yourself then!