any tips to form Germany?

[Ursinho Flinflon]

for 3 days now, i've been trying to form germany, but i always get crushed by either poland, denmark, austria, bohemia, you name it
...
any good useful info about this one? i usually start as brandeburg or bavaria, diplo-annex some vassals from wars and then get swallowed by one major power, trully frustrating
:(

[Xara]

You gotta play the diplo game very carefully. Austria is like the Great Eye, and if it turns on you, well, you sound like you've found that out before. Brandenburg is one of the few who can toe-to-toe the bigger powers later on due to the national ideas, if you snag Quality down the line. I too started as Brandenburg but I don't remember how I started slicing off pieces in the early game. Try to make friends with some of the bigger eastern powers like Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, Bohemia... use them to help take your targets.

I remember it being very tough and very, very close at a few points, like being in a losing war when I had 0 manpower

[sevensided]

If you go the Brandenburg route, make allies and royal marraige with Denmark and Austria right at the start.
Then you have two useful allies to kick the TO so you can gain back Neumark, and even take Bresleau when/if you get that mission. You will also want to vassalaize Pomerrania at the earliet possible moment, and as long as you keep Austria and Denmark happy, all of this should be simple.

Now at this point, you are actually angling to form Prussia before Germany. If you try to dive straight into forming Germany, Austria will not like it, and they will eventually kick your arse. So go for forming Prussia to build up power and give you time to flesh out Quality and Offensive Military Ideas (along with whatever other ideas you pick up).

After you vassal annex Pommerania, you will want to chivy off the pieces of Poland that you need to make Prussia, or on the rare occasion Poland does NOT take the TO out, you'll want to force vassalation on TO.

In the West, slowly force vassalize German minors, and then annex them. Eventually you will get what you need to form Germany.

Two things to watch out for: If Austria inherits Burgundy with that special event, there is a good chance that France will start waging war after war with them, and Austria will lose ground rapidly. If that happens, dump Austria as an ally. At that point, you should be strong enough with one good ally to do what you need to.
Second- if Denmark loses the PUs with Denmark and Sweden, dump them as an ally. If they intergrate, great, keep em around as long as you can.

If you are forced to dump both Austria nd Denmark, look for a strong ally nearby, but not bordering you, to take up arms with you, until you feel strong enough to take on anyone (usually, when Prussia can field 60k army, they're golden if you have the right ideas).

Dont overreach. Don't annex anything in Germany via conquest. Only through vassalization/PUs.

[Ursinho Flinflon]

oh, denmark, nice idea, i'd usually look for aliances inside the HRE, so I'll use those ideas for my next game :D
thanks

[Frankie]

I got it on my first try just a few days ago. What i did was pretty much ally Poland and Austria and just play nice.. Make sure they love you and they will pretty much help you get the regions you need..

I conquered most of the areas, and vassalised Hense, and the guys you can free off from Bohemia and with the alliance from Austria and Poland (+ Lithuania) you got a pretty good force. There are some times where i thought this is it, thanks Austria for declaring war AGAIN! But we got through it.

[Frankie]

A little side note, there are some VERY nice regions in central europe. By the time i formed Germany i was at +30g a month with a 60+ size army fully funded.

[Xara]

Yeah, getting Poland / Lithuania / Hungary as allies, even better as a PU, can really help

[Zeromentor]

Bradenburg is all luck, seriously. You need to try to get Mecklenburg and/or Pommerania as a Vassal (I'd shot for Pom, you'll see why next). After you have a small army, ally with either Austria, Bohemia or Poland. Bohemia will probably be your easiest beat, as your next target (and rival, scoring +50 relations with Bohemia) is the Teutonic Order. You should attempt to Vassalize them, but if that isn't possible go for annexing Nuemark and Osteprutten (spelling probably wrong).

You might come out of this war limping, just retreat into your own box and wait til your first Idea, which should be Diplomacy, and try to get more vassals. Seriously, don't try to flat out claim, annex, core the provinces in the HRE, you'll get Austria looking your way and demanding the land, which is pretty much your end early on. Vassal, Vassal, Vassal, even if you go over your relations limit (See: Diplomacy, which gives you more room to manuever in that area).

If you get the chance, try to help Poland and Lith seperate, either by wars or rebels. Even a royal marriage might ruin their chances for a PU, which means one giant threat is all but eliminated (Ottomons and Russia should mop them up later).

Keep it like this:

1. Do not ally with nations smaller than yourself, unless you are trying to vassalize them.
2. Inside the HRE, vassals are better than annexed land; Austria won't jump you and revolts are lower.
3. Try to get on a major nation's good side. Russia, France, England (for the navy, not the troops) or the Ottomans are good enough choices. Russia's army is awesome, but they might not be able to get around Lith and Poland to help you in wars. France is similar, but tend to anger the HRE trying to get lands around Burgundian and Italian turf. England isn't always the best ally on land, but can be the winner in every naval war, and the Ottomans are just a stones throw from Austria.

Choose wisely, and don't be afraid to retreat totally if you mess up too much (in Ironman, just reload otherwise). Good Luck. I'm doing well enough in my Prussian game around 1610, but I'm unable to gain any more lands due to every nation around me having allied to either blob France (PU with Spain) or Blob Ottomans (They have borders from Tunis to Wein, even touching on Krakow).

[sevensided]

I don't like Poland as an Ally because they quickly become a pushover to beat thanks to them being Eastern Tech group and not nearly as big an army as Russia. If they were a human player, then they would be difficult to deal with.