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討論區規矩與守則
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You can play as them but your chance of success is now smaller as it should be. Fixing gamey exploits used against the ai is a good thing.
You can always mod or free Byzantium as a large vassal to play if you are really wanting to do so.
And when you have gotten this far you are in a pretty good situation already, if you wait until the Ottomans are busy with another war, or get some strong allies to help, you it's still very much doable.
wait until the Otto has his armies east of off the strait of marmara then blockade the strait with lots of galleys and take loans and while that is happening you should take over their western territories with yours and your vassal Athens's armies while you can then rinse and repeat and take loans lots of loans that is how you get from surviving extinction to developing into an actual empire.
Also it's pretty important to make good use of the "bridge" between Greece and Anatolia. If you can catch some armies that have a manageable size on the Greece side and then cut them off by blockading the bridge you can really make some big gains.
Initially i attempted to follow the Wiki, by building a navy, blocking the straights and getting the ottomans armies in asia minor before DOWing and taking the balkan territories. I had the same problem as andrewgr88 pointed out with this, in that in my games the ottomans allied to crimea~ 95% of the time, and would simply walk around the black sea to wipe my nation out, shortly after the crimeans themselves had terrorised my armies and obliterated them.
Funding greek patriots in the ottoman empire also proved fruitless, as without being at war with them they simply crossed and eradicated the rebels - however, using them on the other cores you have - rhodes, naxos, cyprus, crete, corfu etc. proved useful, especially when the venetians were otherwise occupied. If you are lucky the knights will fall the greek patriots almost immediately, giving you a nice little island to hide on if things go pear shaped. Naxos counts as part of southern greece in terms of if the ottomans want it for their mission, so its best to leave it until you have repulsed them somewhat.
What i eventually found to work was a day 1 DOW on albania. By sending your fleet to blockade you can squeeze ~50 gold out of them before the ottomans annex them. I had to start in the region of 35-40 times and never once saw serbia take albania before the ottomans. you can then use the money to build the navy, and for all the use your 6k troops are you can either defund or disband them, personally i defunded them, and used the money to fund rebels somewhere other than the ottomans.
I set out on day 1 for allies who did not have a truce with the ottomans, which, in 1444, is most of eastern europe. If the ottomans DOW before that truce is finished or you get an alliance with someone else, all hope is as good as lost. I eventually found austria and aragon to be the allies that worked. When the ottomans finally DOW'd me, because i had these allies (improve relations, rival set to same people as them if they set rivals, royal marriage and then they should ally) it suddenly became that i had a land power and a naval(ish) power backing me. What really swung it in my favour was that aragon was the curia controller and called a crusade, which bought half of europe into the war and made it relatively simple. Successive wars against the ottomans did not have this luxury, but austria and aragon (later Castile) proved between them enough to hold off the ottomans, just barely at times. Naval supremacy was an absolute must at this point in the game, and i was running 50 galleys on 30 forcelimit at one point to ensure the bosphorus would be inaccessible to the ottoman armies until the christian soldiers were ready to advance. I DID NOT RIVAL/EMBARGO/ANNOY THE OTTOMANS more than neccessary at any point until i was comfortable I could win a defensive war, especially if my allies were busy. I spent a lot of diplomat time improving the ottomans relations until i was larger than they. Once i had taken europe back, i westernised immediately after finishing a war with the ottomans, and after that my armies seemed to perform much more admirably. By the end of the game i was nearly 10 levels behind in admin, 7-8 in diplo but i had matched the western powers the entire game in military tech. Once your armies can hold a candle to the ottomans, you need to ensure you have every advantage. I had very few rulers in the game who had better than 6 overall ruler points, though i did have a 5 and a 6 ruler in military which certainly helped in filling out military tech for their respective reigns.
As for ideas, since naval supremacy is so important, i charged down naval ideas ASAP (at the expense of tech 100%) which beefs your ships up, which seemd to help in the battles i did fight. I didnt bother with generals besides ruler/heirs until midgame, admirals are definitely your friend. I also went for religous (for CB, conversion strength, stability), quantity, expansion and offensive in that order, as manpower was an issue, and i eventually made access to the red sea and deflected the wealth of the east through constantinople using the gulf of aden trade node, making me ridiculously wealthy by end game (about 100-120/month tops, which seeing as i had <10 colonies i thought was amazing)
Poland is a decent ally but only for the very early game, once moldovia was annexed they rivalled me and that did not change for the rest of the game, aragon's opinion swayed this way and that, but Austria proved to be a stalwart ally right up until the 1800's. once russia forms, or if muscowy takes an interest in subjugating crimea they might willingly seek you out as an ally, which obviously is a blessing because Mother Russia likes to destroy armies.
Once you have some big names as allies - doesnt matter who really, make sure that together you are stronger than the ottomans though (I was allied with everybody of note in europe at some point in this game though, bar the italian penninsula and britain) feel free to declare on the ottomans whenever your allies will join you, as long as you can hold the bosphorus you should be able to win any war. Eventually i had reclaimed the balkans, then the asia minor coast, and eventually had pushed all the way to the holy land
The next goal for me was to restore the pentrachy (sentimental reasons) which actually proved to be a really good move, owning judea, rome, restoring the pentrarchy and the eventual byzantine ideas meant you get 1.5 yearly prestige change even with maximum decay. Once the ottomans were out of the way i expanded into asia, the middle east and a limited extent to africa. With religous ideas and byzantine ideas (the last one), converting the muslims was taking 14 months with no patriach authority, which was nice.
I stayed out of europe as much as possible besides the obligatory conversion of Rome, and an end game idea to gain some more land in the venetian trade node for trade purposes.
That's about as accurate as i can recall my thoughts playing, I hope it helps someone as frustrated as i was playing it
1. NO ADVISER !!!
2.Get Athen right at the beginning
3. Make galleys ASAP till you got 20 even if its over your fleet limit
4. Start a war againt the Osmans (now you should have more naval force than Osmans)
5. Now it comes... "Blocking the Bosporus"...Now they can't cross the canal and you can capture the west of the osman empire in "peace" because the won't have troops on that side
6.Get a few provinces and after the armed truce get the rest of the empire
simple is that
This strategy doesn't work, they will get military access from Moldova/Poland.
Anyway, the strategy at the start of the thread, as many have pointed out, does not work if the Ottomans ally with Crimea or a few other nations. I was able to recreate the Byzantine empire through the use of two strategys.
First, rather than build up a rediculous fleet size, I built up an rediculous army size. You don't want to go too far over your force limit, but don't be shy to take loans. You don't need to take loans for the strategy to work, but it does greatly increase your chances of success. Constantinople is the jewel of your empire for a reason, its very defenseable from an enemy attacking across the sea. The Ottomans like to focus the majority of their army on the other side, and send an occupational force when they inevitably attack Albania.
Second is the alliance system. Hungary, Poland, and Lithuania are required as allies to make this strategy work. Serbia will usualy help as well, but generaly you want every nation you can get your hands on. Depending on their stability, they will join you even in an offensive war against the Ottomans.
The Ottomans themselves are going to be having a lot of problems. Most of their provinces are yours by core, culture, and religion, so their revolt risk is rather high. They are also not well liked by the other Muslim countries to the east. They will go to war, either against you, or against them. When that happens, jump on them as hard as you can.
if your in a defensive war, your allies are far more likely to support your cause, and the hungarians 15-20k men start to be really helpful really fast. It doesn't matter if they seige some of the Ottoman's province, as long as you get a few you'll be fine for after the war.
If your in offensive, you need to launch a secondary force to seige, and your primary force to hold Constantinople. Your entire force should be used to destroy the secondary occupational force they used to take Albania, and then immediatly return to Constantinople. The wargoal should always be one of the cores right next to your capitol so you can keep an eye on it.
Using alliances and Terrain, you can win the war and take back your cores. The real advantage of the Byzantines is that when you take these provinces they start to work for you immediatly. No adding cores, no coverting culture or religion, they WANT to be a part of your empire.
Once you have your foot in the door, the Ottomans are doomed. Their capitol is on the wrong side of the sea, and its very vulnerable to your eastern Militia.
Obviously this strategy is a bit hard to pull off due to the fragility of the alliance system, and the unreliability of battle, but it does work 60-70% of the time.
Once you've defeated the Ottomans two bits of advice. You can still take land across from constantnople without converting the provinces, if the Turkish culture becomes one of your accepted cultures, then it helps in your conquest of whats left of the Ottomans. Second, pay attention to the 'Thame System' law in your mission tab. If you can pull that off, it will give you a 25% manpower modifier until the end of the game, and greatily increase the tax and manpower of constantinople.
I hope this all made sense and helps someone. Destroy the infidels, and restore the Pentarchy.
with Conquest of Paradise abd the new patch its very different
Part 3 and 4 etc are in the works
Worked for me, thats what she said, maybe they changed AI some patches ago
If your looking at this thread and wondering if you should comment just don't. Start a new thread on the same topic so that actual up to date information can be shared.