Getting stuck under a personal union

[Phoenix]

I'm a bit confused on how personal unions work. I started a game as the Ottomans and Crimea offered an alliance. I said yes, then I asked them for a royal marriage, and they agreed. Within a few days (game time) I got a message saying I had an independence CB on Crimea and found out I was suddenly in a personal union under them! I restarted to see if it would happen again, did the alliance + royal marriage, but nothing happened the second time. Then I kept playing for a while, and got an alliance and royal marriage with Persia (which had recently formed). Then, during the middle of a war with Hungary, I got the personal union message again and my war with Hungary was cancelled! I was now in a personal union UNDER Persia, even though I had a way bigger empire and over 100,000 troops.

Is it just me or is this all incredibly broken? Surely a relatively small nation shouldn't be able to randomly union me at all, let alone while I'm in the middle of a separate war? The thing is I didn't even lose my monarch (I didn't get the monarch is dead + stability drop message), so I am confused how they even got the unions in the first place. It seems silly to be randomly interrupted by stuff like this and to have to fight a separate war with a former ally (who can easily be crushed) to gain independence, then worry about rebuilding relations, etc.

[Alex]

Your ruler died without an heir. You do not lose stability when you are in a PU. Don't use your ruler as a general (making him one shortens his life span by alot!). You just got unlucky.

[Onion]

you can solve that with few clicks... i will give you hint..
you are playings as ottomans...
and he is crimea...
see my point?

[Phoenix]

I think in both cases my ruler just died randomly, he wasn't ever a general. I was mostly confused by the immediate PU at the beginning of the game, I always thought the Ottoman ruler would live long enough to get through the first month at least. In any case it's easy enough to deal with assuming you're not playing as a small country in a royal marriage with a giant empire, it just seems weird when it's the other way around. Why should a much smaller nation be able to get that much control automatically on the monarch's death? I think it would have made more sense if the struggle for the throne triggered a war declaration from the party wanting the PU, and having to gain it militarily with 84% warscore or something. I thought that's what the whole "Claim Throne" option was all about under diplomacy, but I guess I am missing something here.

[Alex]

The claim throne is if you need to "Persuade" the world that you are the rightful heir to their throne.

I had one game where Austria was put in a PU under Baden the first month and the HRE collasped because France became the emperor some how...

♥♥♥♥ happens. You need to take the risk and reward in to consideration, usally it's worth it.

[Kagemin]

Originally posted by BlueKnight:

I think in both cases my ruler just died randomly, he wasn't ever a general. I was mostly confused by the immediate PU at the beginning of the game, I always thought the Ottoman ruler would live long enough to get through the first month at least. In any case it's easy enough to deal with assuming you're not playing as a small country in a royal marriage with a giant empire, it just seems weird when it's the other way around. Why should a much smaller nation be able to get that much control automatically on the monarch's death? I think it would have made more sense if the struggle for the throne triggered a war declaration from the party wanting the PU, and having to gain it militarily with 84% warscore or something. I thought that's what the whole "Claim Throne" option was all about under diplomacy, but I guess I am missing something here.

Great Britain was in a Personal Union under Hanover in the 18th and 19th century (technically), it's a diplomatical thing, not one that depends on power.
In-game you only need a Royal Marriage and more prestige than the other nation and every other nation they have a royal marriage with when their ruler dies without a heir.

"Claim Throne" is an aggressive option, since it allows you to militarily enforce a PU if you are of the same dynasty. The other nation has no heir or one with only a weak claim and you're saying that the throne should be yours because of this.

[CaptBasil]

Can you get out from under a PU? Technically, your succession line would be gone and there wouldn't be anyone to reclaim the throne, right?

[Xandurz]

Originally posted by Paul31286:

Can you get out from under a PU? Technically, your succession line would be gone and there wouldn't be anyone to reclaim the throne, right?

But there would be someone related to your old ruler, or someone who is the most supported by local nobles (Pretender rebels work almost the same).

[Alex]

To break a PU you can actively do it in the following ways ( that I am aware of)

1.) Event - causes a republic to come up (England, France have them, and the Bureaucratic despotism one for everyone else as well)
2.) Pretender Rebels/Revolutionaries/Peasants - these can change your government type or install a new king
3.) Fight for your independence using the CB!

[Kagemin]

A Personal Union also breaks when the current ruler dies while either having negative prestige, or when the senior partner has negative relations with the junior partner.

[Alex]

Just to clarify the last point as I've seen alot of confused people, insulting the senior partner doesn't make the union break or stop them from integrating you.