Teutonic Order as Clerical State?

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

I just started a campaign as the Teutonic Order, which is a Monastic Order obviously. As such, it is limited to duchy rank with all the caps connected with it. However, there is the option to switch to Clerical State for mere 50 reform points (reform tier I), and from the description, I conclude that this would remove the duchy restriction. Why is this option hardly ever discussed when it comes to the TO? At least I have not found anything on this specific topic. Does it not work as I imagine, or are there insurmountable downsides to that choice?

I am also wondering if switching to Clerical State would somehow change the tag of my nation, rendering the Baltic Crusader achievement impossible. Can someone comment to that?

For reference, I am playing without the Lions of the North DLC and the revamped reforms and missions that come with that one.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

If you go along the Crusader path of the TO mission tree, you are granted unique government reforms through your mission tree fixing you to Kingdom, then Empire rank instead, rendering the switch largely unnecessary.

If you instead go along the HRE Diplomacy or German Conquest path, you get automatically switched to the "Teutonic Bishopric" tier 1 reform instead.

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

What part of "I am playing without the Lions of the North DLC" did you not understand?

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

The part with the word "without", it distinctly looked like it said "with" when I typed that...

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

The part with the word "without", it distinctly looked like it said "with" when I typed that...

Then maybe you should research the "Medical Optics" technology as soon as possible.

In case you intend to infer that I changed the phrase after the fact: As you can see above, the last edit of my initial post was four hours ago, and your response was merely one hour ago. Go, figure.

[Azunai]

There's not that much to discuss really. If you don't have DLC options to flip to some advanced government reform, you'd either go for forming Prussia (which i think automatically changes you to a monarchy and to kingdom rank?) or you manually flip to the reform that doesn't limit you to duchy once you get to 300 dev and can upgrade to kingdom.

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by Azunai:

There's not that much to discuss really. If you don't have DLC options to flip to some advanced government reform, you'd either go for forming Prussia (which i think automatically changes you to a monarchy and to kingdom rank?) or you manually flip to the reform that doesn't limit you to duchy once you get to 300 dev and can upgrade to kingdom.

Actually, there is a lot to discuss.

You cannot switch to Prussia when going for the Baltic Crusader, because that one can only be completed by the Teutonic or the Livonian Order.

As a Monastic Order, you cannot upgrade to kingdom. If the simple solution for that would be to switch to Clerical State in reform tier I, why is this option never discussed in TO strategy guides, especially in connection with playing wide (which is necessary to conquer all of Russia)? I suspect that the easy way has some strings attached to it I am not seeing right now (and neither are you, obviously).

Also, there remains the question if that latter reform would change your tag, rendering the aforementioned achievement impossible, which you did not address at all.

So, thanks for trying. Better luck next time.

[aqvamare]

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

I just started a campaign as the Teutonic Order, which is a Monastic Order obviously. As such, it is limited to duchy rank with all the caps connected with it. However, there is the option to switch to Clerical State for mere 50 reform points (reform tier I), and from the description, I conclude that this would remove the duchy restriction. Why is this option hardly ever discussed when it comes to the TO? At least I have not found anything on this specific topic. Does it not work as I imagine, or are there insurmountable downsides to that choice?

I am also wondering if switching to Clerical State would somehow change the tag of my nation, rendering the Baltic Crusader achievement impossible. Can someone comment to that?

For reference, I am playing without the Lions of the North DLC and the revamped reforms and missions that come with that one.

Because you loose the only good advantage, free generals as ruler, which translate in better ruler management.

Generals die faster, so you can force heir and rulers in early death, to reroll the RNG Lottery which can grand you strong rulers.

The other cleric options have only ruler RNG, and no control over it.

And ducy is a small disadvantage, which is easy to bypass.

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by aqvamare:

Because you loose the only good advantage, free generals as ruler, which translate in better ruler management.

Generals die faster, so you can force heir and rulers in early death, to reroll the RNG Lottery which can grand you strong rulers.

The other cleric options have only ruler RNG, and no control over it.

And ducy is a small disadvantage, which is easy to bypass.

Thanks for being the first person here to actually address my question with useful information.

By "easy to bypass", I assume you mean giving out the estate privileges that increase governing capacity, as well as research? Because for achieving my goal, I need to occupy a lot of territory.

Have you tried if the Teutonic Order stays the Teutonic Order when it is not a Monastic Order anymore, but a Clerical State?

[aloup.saipuol]

There is no reason that changing a government reform would change your tag. As long as you do not form another country, such as Prussia or whatever, your tag won't change. You can become a Galician Alcheringa Shogunate for what the game cares, you'll still be the Teutonic Order and be eligible for the achievement.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

There is also a later generic government reform or two that allows you to change your government rank even as a Monastic Order. It was more useful in earlier patches, but since the more recent reworks to the government reform system these reforms are buried all the way down at tier 10, so it may take a while to get to them.