British Navy Overpowered?

[Richon]

Playing as France, I'm at the same tech level as Britain (well, actually 1 diplo ahead of them). In a naval battle where I had 21 heavies vs their 16 heavies and 22 transports they wiped the floor with me. I took out one heavy and lost my entire fleet. Both sides had leaders. I've seen British fleets pull this off against vastly superior numbers before, too (playing as Malaya, I had 75 heavies to their 20 and lost everything, inflicting no casualties). What's going on?

[Pozz]

Postat inițial de Kite:

Postat inițial de Pozz:

You need to manually upgrade your ships (those already built) when you research new ones, so if you hadn't done that, they could have better ships than you.

This isn't really applicable to his situation as both nations had the same unit types since tech 9. They both had a couple techs to go before the heavy upgrade at tech 15. But yes it is still important to upgrade, but highly unlikely that he had not upgraded/built ships since dip tech 3.

It was mainly put there in case he didn't know about the upgrade function and expected it to happen automatically, thus leaving his ships outdated =)

[Wave]

Naval combat in this game is mentally challenged (because steam cencorshit reaches the R-word), do we need to add more?
If naval combat had been like this historically nobody would have colonized anything before 1800's because there wouldn't have been any ships as every nation would have been bankrupt ever since they built their first ships (which according to EU4 cost half a year's national income each) and lost them all just because the enemy had one ship more.

And some more constructive ideas:
Don't fight naval powers unless you can afford throwing away hundreds of ships to gamble them down, or just move around with 1000 heavy ship stack and hope you can find an enemy.

[Kitten Food]

Postat inițial de Torsimus-Nohac:

If naval combat had been like this historically nobody would have colonized anything before 1800's because there wouldn't have been any ships as every nation would have been bankrupt ever since they built their first ships (which according to EU4 cost half a year's national income each) and lost them all just because the enemy had one ship more.

Ships *were* prohibitively expensive during this time frame. EU4 is actually giving the player a very generous fantasy that you can builld hundreds of ships and rule the waves on a dime. The fact in this can be seen in Ming China who had the largest navy ever built until the 20th century. Their navy was so expensive they outright banned it for almost making them bankrupt (they also had over half the world's GDP during that time).

The fact that any nation in this era...any...can build armadas in the sheer numbers given is ludicrous. Even the mighty Spanish Armada numbered less than 300 (the majority were merchant ships with crude cannons attached last minute).

Enjoy the fun before it is nerfed, as it should be.

[ScareCrow]

I dont understand why people have so much trouble with the Navy. I have almost never lost a naval battle apart from some small sacrifices done on purpose. please explain why you have these problems..

[Richon]

Postat inițial de ScareCrow:

I dont understand why people have so much trouble with the Navy. I have almost never lost a naval battle apart from some small sacrifices done on purpose. please explain why you have these problems..

Problem was already explained and answered. Long story short, I thought the British bonuses were not as powerful as they were, and I thought my numerical advantage was more powerful than it was. So by underestimating their ability, and overestimating my own, I walked into a death trap.

[Lord Kraken]

This was an interesting thread. Thanks to OP Richon and especially Kite for his contribution.

[Perbert]

Venice has an OP navy for their size. England , Venice, Spain and Portugal need powerful navies to survive in this game. This game is sort of a historical simulator and we all know that GB`s navy saved their asses many times. IRL Britains navy during the time period of this game was far more OP than it is in the game. Ask Spain or Napoleonic France.

[Kitten Food]

Postat inițial de Perbert:

Venice has an OP navy for their size. England , Venice, Spain and Portugal need powerful navies to survive in this game. This game is sort of a historical simulator and we all know that GB`s navy saved their asses many times. IRL Britains navy during the time period of this game was far more OP than it is in the game. Ask Spain or Napoleonic France.

England's navy was more OP? How so? Even after the 1588 defeat, Spain remained the undisputed naval power in the region. England tried but failed in offensive pursuits after that battle. England was good at defending its own territory during this epic events, but it didn't mean they were OP. You also can't attribute weather and disease to the National Ideas lol.

[Perbert]

Postat inițial de Kite:

Postat inițial de Perbert:

Venice has an OP navy for their size. England , Venice, Spain and Portugal need powerful navies to survive in this game. This game is sort of a historical simulator and we all know that GB`s navy saved their asses many times. IRL Britains navy during the time period of this game was far more OP than it is in the game. Ask Spain or Napoleonic France.

England's navy was more OP? How so? Even after the 1588 defeat, Spain remained the undisputed naval power in the region. England tried but failed in offensive pursuits after that battle. England was good at defending its own territory during this epic events, but it didn't mean they were OP. You also can't attribute weather and disease to the National Ideas lol.

You also forgot about the Dutch. They helped England out during the Spanish attempted invasion of England. Also knowledge of weather paterns is not a fluke. England knew their seas, weather, and teritory The English and the Dutch pretty much kited the Spanish armada around the British isles. Spain was arrogant and thought their large fleet could easily beat the English. It was not a fluke.

After the Spanish armada was defeated, Spanish power began to decline, British power began to increase. Britian relied on privateers and priacy. In 1700, 1800 and 1900 hundreds Spain was just a ♥♥♥♥♥ pawn to France, Germany and oher European powers and Britain remaned a world player. Today Sapin is weak and England is a pawn to the USA. Today new world former colonies like the USA, Mexico, Canada and Brazil are just as strong and rich as European countries.

[Kitten Food]

Postat inițial de Perbert:

You also forgot about the Dutch. They helped England out during the Spanish attempted invasion of England. Also knowledge of weather paterns is not a fluke. England knew their seas, weather, and teritory The English and the Dutch pretty much kited the Spanish armada around the British isles. Spain was arrogant and thought their large fleet could easily beat the English. It was not a fluke.

After the Spanish armada was defeated, Spanish power began to decline, British power began to increase. Britian relied on privateers and priacy. In 1700, 1800 and 1900 hundreds Spain was just a ♥♥♥♥♥ pawn to France, Germany and oher European powers and Britain remaned a world player. Today Sapin is weak and England is a pawn to the USA. Today new world former colonies like the USA, Mexico, Canada and Brazil are just as strong and rich as European countries.

I didn't forget about the Dutch. Nor was it part of the subject.

England had no idea about the weather change. You will find no proof of your assumption.

None of the other information in your profanity laden response has any relevance to why you think the game doesn't give justice to the Engish navy.

Failed response bro.

[BoboMaximus]

The AI wins by defualt :) , but mostlikley is Navy traditions and moral. I know it doesnt make sense the English really didnt have a have the Royal Navy till Henry the 8th that would the early 1500s. But there are a bunch of inaccuraciesi n the game.
1. the Eruopeans have no man power Issues in the New World

2. England , Spain and France are allied when they hit the New World.(This has played out 3 times so its a fixed mechanic)( MM , France and Spain hated England for converting to the reform. ) England lands on what becomes Newfoundland in the Mid 1500s, Spain has not got to Mexico yet. (Real History , The first English Conlony at Plmymounth acually faild , England wasnt able to estalish a conoly in the New world till Jamestown and that wasnt till 1607 and that took over 20 years to settle , it almost faild due to manpower issues , because of conflicts with the Natives. so this Idea that England Colonized the new world in 15 years as the game plays out is false.)

3. Why as a Native do I need Cause Belli to declare war on Eroupeans ? I acullty I should be able to raid colonise without declaring war (Might want to borrow the tribal system from CK2)

[Perbert]

Postat inițial de Kite:

Postat inițial de Perbert:

You also forgot about the Dutch. They helped England out during the Spanish attempted invasion of England. Also knowledge of weather paterns is not a fluke. England knew their seas, weather, and teritory The English and the Dutch pretty much kited the Spanish armada around the British isles. Spain was arrogant and thought their large fleet could easily beat the English. It was not a fluke.

After the Spanish armada was defeated, Spanish power began to decline, British power began to increase. Britian relied on privateers and priacy. In 1700, 1800 and 1900 hundreds Spain was just a ♥♥♥♥♥ pawn to France, Germany and oher European powers and Britain remaned a world player. Today Sapin is weak and England is a pawn to the USA. Today new world former colonies like the USA, Mexico, Canada and Brazil are just as strong and rich as European countries.

I didn't forget about the Dutch. Nor was it part of the subject.

England had no idea about the weather change. You will find no proof of your assumption.

None of the other information in your profanity laden response has any relevance to why you think the game doesn't give justice to the Engish navy.

Failed response bro.

Dutch is part of the subject to why the Sapnish armada failed to invade England. They helped Engalnd out. The Nertherlands were once Spanish subjects and wanted to keep their independance so they helped the English out by not giving Spain access to their ports. The English and anyone that lives in a certain area can not predict the weather but can see paterns and know when winter or storms are coming (like Russia when Napoleon and Hitler tried to invade them). Also the English ships were faster and more manoverable than the Spanish ships. The English channel and north seas are rough and the English knew it, the Spanish failed to see it.

This all has relevance to the game because it is based on history and England had a kick ass navy during the time period of the game. A lot of research went into the game so some nations are better at certaint aspects. Englands national ideas help its navy but so does Venice`s ideas. Between the late1500s to the late 1800s Britania ruled the waves. Now the USA does.