Is it worth it to westernize as Russia?

[PlayStationControllerEnjoyer]

Russia's final national idea gives them -10% technology cost modifier, and with aristocratic ideas their military technology would progress at the same rate as western nations. By the time Russia can westernize they are usually quite massive, which means westernization would take a long time. Aside from spending 20 years stomping rebels that could be spent expanding the Russian Empire, westernization would greatly destabilize the nation and put a strain (if not creating a complete absence of) monarch points. With those two factors, the Times of Trouble event could easily trigger and Russia would be helpless to stopping it. So aside from wasting time, the whole thing could easily backfire. So is it even worth it?

[Yami]

No it is not If u managed to get western arm trade u r effectively paying the same as western powers for tech.

[Radene]

Only if you really, really, really want to create St. Petersburg (you need to be western to get the decision to move the capital to Neva and rename it to St. Petersburg). I must say in some games I like to do that just for kicks.

But purely from the numbers point of view? No, you're strong enough as eastern...and besides, if you westernize, Ming can westernize off you, too, once you reach Siberia, and westernized Ming is SCARY.

[Wave]

You can pretty much keep up (or even ahead) with most of western countries in tech if you don't get really bad monarchs that (usually) stays alive for 100 years because AI may waste unnecessary monarch points to several random things.
Of course if you hyper expand and everything gets screwed up by rebels or something and by 1700's you're 10 levels behind in every tech it might just be worth it to continue the rebel fighting.

[Sir Slasher]

only mil tech matters

[Pozz]

Typically not worth the hazzle =) Eastern and Ottoman nations wont need it =)

[Blue Knight™]

Originally posted by Sir Slasher:

only mil tech matters

nope.. cause if your economy is failing cause your adm tech doesnt give you enough buildings to upgrade your provences , loans are worse then a army behind one tech

[Camillo]

i did it once very early on. i was western in 1500. most of my countris around me just collaps i didt get it first, then i realise they tryed to westenice of me. it was pretty easy to eat them up and i was leading in tech becouse of theyr ideas.

[lovelace]

It depends.

Basically westernizing is better than not doing it, since you can spend all those monarch points on other stuff. Especially saving on admin points and diplo points is awesome as Russia, because you can invest them in more cores and culture conversion.

However, it is not something you should actively pursue. But if you ever get into a situation where you have ten years worth of truce with all neighbors or are too low on manpower, or have a regency council, you can opt for it

Basically my point is: If you are in a spot where you will be forced to go slow for ten years or more, you might as well spend the time westernizing

[Kitten Food]

Originally posted by Sir Slasher:

only mil tech matters

The worst statement that can be said about anything on these forums. Period.
Any player who believes this will soon find themselves in a hole they will not be able to dig themselves out of.

[Kitten Food]

I agree with what the OP originally stated about his mil tech modifiers but also with what others have said. You don't need to westernize as Eastern and if you fall behind by that many techs you are already putting yourself in danger. The only time I would really do it is if I know I am falling behind due to a chain of bad heirs. Also as has been mentioned, other nations will westernize off of you as you reach the far east. That can seriously hamper your easy expansion plans.

[Cups]

i once had military tech 10 and france had 7 and austria had 8 and poland had 6

[Kitten Food]

Originally posted by TsarAlexis:

Originally posted by Kite:

The worst statement that can be said about anything on these forums. Period.
Any player who believes this will soon find themselves in a hole they will not be able to dig themselves out of.

I actually agree with Sir Slasher depending on what your goals are you can completely ignore Diplo tech and only really need admin for ideas to unlock and to keep stab at 0. More provinces, more money, more armies to put down rebellions and to expand faster if you focus entirely on military tech you can have success but it depends on your goals.

You are giving @SirSlasher more credit than what his simple statements says.

Your mil tech does matter but not to the point that you can ignore the other 2 areas. It is also not the only tech that matters. Not an opinion it is a fact. You can have mil tech better by a couple techs but lose every war versus a nation that has a completed mil idea group that is only a couple techs behind in mil. Your mil tech also doesn't gain *any* discounts if you don't invest in idea groups to lower the cost, essentially making you pay more to stay ahead. Its a fail strategy.

Being ahead in Admin tech and Diplo tech gives you bonuses. Something mil tech does not do. Already factual proof that there is no benefit to saying "im ahead in mil tech by so and so years".

You need admin tech for ideas (essential..a fact) as well, production efficiency (very important to pay for your rising costs in military units) and to change your government into more useful versions. It is not something to take lightly at all.

Diplo is very important for nations who are not land locked. This is the vast majority of nations. Citing examples of the few nations that this doesn't apply to is harmful to players seeking advice on how to learn the game. Being behind in diplo tech doesn't hurt as much as being behind in admin or mil tech; however, being behind when navies are important will cost you dearly. If youa are trying to earn trade income, being behind will not only make it difficult but will cost you even more income since the natural traders such as Portugal, Spain, Venice, etc will take even more trade from you.

You cannot win by just mil tech. You might have more provinces but you will not have those provinces in your same culture group, with high autonomy and with nationalism. You will reach a point where you will regret not having a strong infrastructure and base to support your expansions. It will cost you and you will come back begging for advice on why your mil-only strategy failed.

Btw @Tsar, good job on your persia campaign so far.

[Maximilian Kolbe]

"O Lordy, may You Yourself come down from the great Heavens and the skies so that we may necro this old post!"

I have spoken!

[Hoja Lateralus]

Now I'm running campaign as Novgorod and I westernised in 1501 from Sweden (but as someone said - I had a situation of moderate peace and low manforce) and I think it's great. Around 1600 I have some idea groups filled, military tech on normal (west) level and administrative and diplomative little lower (diplomatic is the worst, like 4 down than average western nation) so I can pretty much "pretend" regular western nation. I think if you have an opportunity to do it in early game - you should.

[Blinks menacingly]

Originally posted by Kite:

Originally posted by Sir Slasher:

only mil tech matters

The worst statement that can be said about anything on these forums. Period.
Any player who believes this will soon find themselves in a hole they will not be able to dig themselves out of.

The only problem is that the biggest youtubers spread this ♥♥♥♥ around like Shenryr.He never actually states only mil matters but only tech up adm and dip to get the first buildings and then he only up them if he reaches the monarch point cap.