Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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This Aztec game pissed me off
Obviously it's not possible to survive with them, but why are they even playable?

I bought the collection pack simply because I hoped it would make some interesting gameplay possibilities in the region, but the 40 unit English invading army says I'm wrong.
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Showing 1-15 of 56 comments
shoki Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:25am 
I would say l2p :>
It's the same for every native nation in the new world, not just the aztecs.

You just have to be strong (so better have weak nations around you, which get conquered first) and increase relations with the european colonizer as soon as you seem then and always try to max relations. Then beginn westernization as soon as possible (which should be soon after you see the first colony of them and build one of yours neighbouring theirs). For aztecs it's good to head to the south-east cost with your colonies. Near brazil.

Then there are 2 options:
1) Hope to get the event to change to catholic early and if your nation isn't stable abort westernization. With catholic religion you should now be able to ally them.
2) Don't change religion, because aztec religion is stronk and hope they don't attack you during westernization.

If you get attacked from england (as aztecs) before you see castille/Portugal you did either something wrong or had very bad luck with weak castille/portugal.
Last edited by shoki; Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:30am
I'll tell you what happened. I conquered the entire region. As soon as I saw anything of Castille I sent an envoy to them to improve relations, and then out of nowhere the soldiers of England have arrived AND some of my western provinces got overtook by nationalists (the rebels did not besiege me, they instantly took control of the provinces). I would negotiate with them, but I cannot while I'm at war. I wasn't even aware that England existed, I could not improve my relationship with the by any means.

So then I raised an army of about 35k with some cavalry to boot, tried to assign my best commander to tthem and tried to fight the English invaders and they of course roflstomped me to the ground.

There is no l2p about this, it's just impossible. I couldn't be any stronger than this, and they still murder me, verdict: not possible without mods.

And I did try to google a way to make them work: All of them are on earier versions where you could raise a fleet, or some funny tricks with some other game and exporting the game here or whatever...
Last edited by Pope Innocent the 69th; Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:33am
shoki Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:33am 
I survived in my current game, so it's not impossible :)

The goal is to prevent the war. If they attack you it's a loos ofc, because they win 1:10. Seems like you didn't colonize far enough to the south east to westernize early. England normaly is very late (around 1580) in sight of you and you should already be westenized by 1560 through castille/portugal. You need a good understanding of strategies to survive until after westernization, that's why i think i have told you already in another thread that native nations aren't a good choice for beginner.
Last edited by shoki; Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:36am
England attacks me in 1540. Or if she doesn't (I tried reloading) then it's Castille. Not like it matters, they are allied anyway. England actually has control of the carribeans while Spain has a massive New Granada. But I cannot establish relations with England in any way shape or form, they just jump on me from nowhere.
Last edited by Pope Innocent the 69th; Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:35am
shoki Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:40am 
If they arrive that early i would call it a bad luck game. Sometimes you aren't supposted to survive in 1 out of 5games. Just restart and try again :)
Kitten Food Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:50am 
What you have said is quite true about the military aspects of playing Native. It really is a campaign of luck, which can really make you upset after investing hours in building up. As @shoki said, Natives are not really a good choice for a beginner, I'd also say they are even less of a choice after the update (even with the cool religions). The ship nerfs and colonization restrictions will make it much harder to follow the past strategies or tricks.

Unfortunately it won't change unless they alter the logistics of tranporting armies over open seas. We all know that Europe didn't have the means to transport tens of thousands of troops, horses, artillery over open seas until after the 18th century (even then...very perilous). So of course you will get crushed since their military tech is much more superior when they arrive.

The only 'simple' fix I can see is if they give Natives +100% forcelimits and attrition bonuses if not westernized (similar to hordes). At least that would give some type of hope to overwhealm with numbers.

I can only advise losing a war (but trying to save your army) by giving some land away, then try to increase relations with England or Castille. Its a gamble if it helps, but sometimes nations will change their focus based on relations. Attempt to westernize and surive asap with that new border. That is really the only thing that is going to give you any hope on regaining your campaign back.
Nah, I already abandoned that one, I'm trying again. I'm gonna do what has been suggested, this time if I save up admin points I could expand along the southern border, touch a castillian colony to get westernisation. I'm gonna do that by absorbing my victims via vassal annexing instead of a flat out military annexation (saves the admin points for making cores). It SEEMS to be working well, I expect to be the owner of 5 ex tribes by about 1473-74 ish, then conquer all the Aztec-religion worshipping people, wait a while again, conquer the Mayas, then try to colonise and westernise via Castille asap.

By the way, are they ACTUALLY going to stop at some point when they come to conquer me? I mean when I was playing Spain I took 1 half of the Aztecs in one bite, the next half 10 years later (yes, they were smaller, so maybe it would take 3 bites instead?)

And I'm not exactly a new player, I played both eu2 and 3, although not very extensively ( I was a huge fan of uniting Russia, then getting frustrated because of the lack of Magistrates :D)
Last edited by Pope Innocent the 69th; Mar 1, 2015 @ 8:58am
I can imagine the Aztec snowballing extremely hard if they manage to westernise early...all those juicy colonies, with their mother nations sooo soooooooooo far awaaaaay :D

Also, as somebody mentioned, they are kinda rich, the largest tariff I got was from Mexico.
Mortmal Mar 1, 2015 @ 10:17am 
He's right , even if you send an envoy immediately, they will get a -200 "want you provinces modifier" , they declare war unload huge armies far too early , completely unrealistic.

Even reforming religion wich boost tech is not enough and they will destroy all of your armies no matter your size, they wont even be able to retreat. Then with a 100% warscore easily achievable, they will take most if not all of your provinces.

So first part of the game is lot of waiting, managing the doom counter the best you can, then when you get there all you built is taken from you , unless you are lucky .The conversion rate is frightening fast and soon those provinces are christian and even invader culture, not even a revolt...
Nubnut Mar 1, 2015 @ 10:20am 
You have to build up a hellaciously large fleet more than anything else, after I conquered Mesoamerica I practically didn't have a standing army any more in order to try and field the largest navy possible.

You can beat the Spanish in open water easily enough, but if they can land troops then you're essentially screwed (until you can make it to Europe)
However, you can't build a fleet until you have god knows how high diplo tech, I would guess 7 maybe?
shoki Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:09am 
since 1.10 you can't have a fleet as a amercian native. Nubnut is most likely talking about an old strategy and exactly points out, why it got changed, because it made no sense that you can win a naval battle.
Last edited by shoki; Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:10am
Surimi Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:11am 
It took me four tries, but I finally managed to get an Aztec game off the ground in 1.10. There was one incredibly scary moment where I got attacked simultaneously by Castille and Portugal (the latter with their English allies). By the end, I was pretty close to bankrupcy and was running about 25 loans with half my lands occupied (managed to get Castille to accept a concession of defeat), but managed to get an incredibly lucky break because my westernization finished and Portugal immediately agreed to accept war reparations (looking back, it's possible completing westernization made their wargoal ineligable, as westernized pagans are no longer eligible for colonial conquests).

Expect to concede some land. My big mistake in previous games, I think, was rage-quitting when I lost some land (even quite a lot of land). The whole thing is a race to Westernization, and once you get there the danger is basically over because a) the Europeans can't attack you directly with their ridiculous colonial conquest CB and b) you can build ships. You can expand your lands again through colonization quite easily, and with your huge military bonuses you should have no trouble taking back lost clay later, especially if it was aztec culture (you never lose cores on aztec culture provinces).

When facing the Europeans, it's basically all about preventing them ever building up the massive doomstacks. Your biggest ally is that Europeans will have to ship their armies to fight you piecemeal, so you can attack them off the boat. Don't have a single massive attack group, that isn't how this game works, and combat width will mean the inferior troops always lose. Instead, split your army in half and have them attack one after the other, so your fresh, high morale troops are fighting weakened and exhausted Europeans. If you fail, use dirty tricks. Scorch the earth so that the doomstacks take high attrition. Concede defeat to your invader's allies once they drop to medium war exhaustion (prestige is easy to regain). Just do everything to drive down war enthusiasm and to limit the ammount you'll have to give up in peace.

Honestly. I'm not going to lie. It's incredibly hard, and a lot of strategies which used to make it easier no longer work (you can't build navies, you can't colony-hop along the coast to meet them at Brazil, you can't easily convert to Christianity). The introduction of doom also makes it even harder (even compared to the Mayans or Inti worshippers, who are significantly easier to play). Really, you just need to recognize that you will almost certainly lose one or two colonial conquest wars before managing to Westernize. However, as said, once you do things get a lot easier.
Last edited by Surimi; Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:13am
It takes New spain precisely 3 years to invalidate all my previous claims by convertin my population to Castillian culture, than 3 years later to christianity as well (or maybe the other way around?). So if I do loose land, that land will be permanent. Not to mention that New Spain is an absolute beast.

Europeans never make peace as long as you don't invade their home county. NEVER. In every single colonial war I got into as spain, I had to invade the country that owned the provinces, no matter how much land I occupied overseas. "Hey guys, we're going to scotland again!" If I couldn't get their war enthusiasm below high as a colonial superpower, I doubt I could do it as the Aztec.

I rage-quit as soon as I loose my first land battle. Recovering from a loss is impossible, it just seals your inevitable doom. I may be able to hire mercs, but who will save me if I run out of manpower? I will probably scorch the Yucatan though, that may sound like a viable thing to do.
Surimi Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:25am 
Originally posted by Vajrajina:
Nah, I already abandoned that one, I'm trying again. I'm gonna do what has been suggested, this time if I save up admin points I could expand along the southern border, touch a castillian colony to get westernisation. I'm gonna do that by absorbing my victims via vassal annexing instead of a flat out military annexation (saves the admin points for making cores). It SEEMS to be working well, I expect to be the owner of 5 ex tribes by about 1473-74 ish, then conquer all the Aztec-religion worshipping people, wait a while again, conquer the Mayas, then try to colonise and westernise via Castille asap.

In order to Westernize, you need to reform the religion. This is actually a pretty major task (it requires you to repeatedly conquer a bunch of vassal states, which will then break away once you pass a reform). Each reform gives you a powerful, permanent bonus though. Still, forget just straight up expanding until you've finished (in fact, doing so is a bad idea even when you have, as it will drive up doom generation while also leaving you noone to fight and take captives from).

Also, the Europeans will attack you before you meet one of their colonies. Your best bet is actually to sell them a colony they "want" and hope it finishes coring before they attack you. Once you've reformed the religion, you get a significant tech boost, no more doom and can probably start Westernizing immediately.

Originally posted by Vajrajina:
Europeans never make peace as long as you don't invade their home county. NEVER.

You aren't looking for white peace. You're trying to beat them down to conceding something you're willing to give (like war reparations, or even just a concession of defeat). There is a timer which functions as a positive/negative modifer to war enthusiasm, and eventually if you drag the war out long enough they will accept something fairly minor.
Last edited by Surimi; Mar 1, 2015 @ 11:28am
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Date Posted: Mar 1, 2015 @ 7:09am
Posts: 56