Endless coalition war...

[_Joe___]

Playing as England. Manpower drained. Economy decent enough for a 50-ship navy plus one mercenary group at a time. Fighting three coalitions @ approx 600,000 men all over the planet. Stalemate. Enemies can't invade England, I can't defeat 600,000 men. My colonies handling skirmishes. Time passes. Endless wars = endless war fatigue = endless rebellions. I'm bored. This is stupid. Won't surrender, not about to give away four states / 40% of my land. Stuck at -50% war score / +2 % war score / - 3 % war score. Why won't this stop?

[MasterYi]

You shouldn’t have went over 50 AE, if yku choose to do so anyways you should have a strong alliance to deter enemies, maybe even ally potential coalition members so they get reduced AE when you peace out.

If you cannot out pace the Coalition by conquest then you should increase your Improve Relations modifier such as Trade Policies in trade nodes, advisors, and the Diplomatic Idea group.

Don’t be so spread out if you don’t want to deal with multiple fronts, you can spread out the AE and have different fronts if you are able to keep it below 50, but if you are expanding aggressively then it is best to do it intensively on one region (based on Culture or Religion) to wipe out all countries there before moving onto the next one.

You should also be the one attacking the coalition while it is still small instead of letting it grow, you being the attacker instead of the defender also has the added benefit of the coalition members not having an extra -30 reasons to peace out due to the “coalition war” modifier”.

Sieging down the capital of the main coalition member that you choose makes them easier to peace out compared to Showing Superiority through battles.

Don’t explore Terra Incognita just for the sake of exploring, if you cannot see them then they cannot gain AE on you. If you discover them but they haven’t discovered you (Unknown Attitude) they still are able to gain AE.

[bri]

You're losing 2 of the wars so why, exactly, would the coalitions make a friendly-ish peace with you when they all hate you (which is what triggered the coalition to begin with). That said, you might be able to get rid of the ones not beating you too badly with things like breaking alliances and throwing money at them depending on who exactly is leading them. The one crushing you you'll need to turn around or give real concessions to get rid of.

[volbound1700]

I used to have problems in past with Coalition and there are good ways to avoid it:

1. Get a lot of Allies that are strong to prevent declaration. If you plus your Allies have more troops/manpower or at least about even, the Coalition won't declare on you
2. Improve Relationship with people around you to avoid them joining coalition. Even if they join a coalition, if you get them to over +45 relations, they will typically drop out
3. You can also cheat if you are NOT playing Ironman, just save game, log out, rejoin as the leader of the coalition and propose white peace to yourself (it will be accepted usually by whatever AI is playing you). That could salvage your game if you want to keep it going. Won't work for Ironman though.

I had to do that in an Multiplayer game for a human player that was playing England and he wasn't very good with the game. I joined as France who was leading the coalition and White Peace with him to save his butt.

Another thing about Coalition, you take a hit while you are also coring provinces. Get the provinces cored quickly. Also don't join Allies wars because a Coalition war may fire if you do that as well. You can turn off the call into Allied War option with each of your allies.

[Ashling]

People can't go into a coalition if they have a truce with you so it's sometimes beneficial to declare an early war against the coalition before it has fully formed. You'll end up fighting two smaller coalitions instead of one big one.

Alternatively, you could just lose. Not the end of the world and you can rebuild. EU4 is kinda sucky compared to other PDX games when it comes to recovering from a major loss (revanchism being far too weak and temporary), but as England it's way more doable simply because England's one of the most stable countries in the game.

Originally posted by volbound1700:

You can also cheat if you are NOT playing Ironman, just save game, log out, rejoin as the leader of the coalition and propose white peace to yourself (it will be accepted usually by whatever AI is playing you). That could salvage your game if you want to keep it going. Won't work for Ironman though.

At that point just open console and type ~winwars.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Triangle:

People can't go into a coalition if they have a truce with you so it's sometimes beneficial to declare an early war against the coalition before it has fully formed. You'll end up fighting two smaller coalitions instead of one big one.

Alternatively, you could just lose. Not the end of the world and you can rebuild. EU4 is kinda sucky compared to other PDX games when it comes to recovering from a major loss (revanchism being far too weak and temporary), but as England it's way more doable simply because England's one of the most stable countries in the game.

Originally posted by volbound1700:

You can also cheat if you are NOT playing Ironman, just save game, log out, rejoin as the leader of the coalition and propose white peace to yourself (it will be accepted usually by whatever AI is playing you). That could salvage your game if you want to keep it going. Won't work for Ironman though.

At that point just open console and type ~winwars.

True but that wouldn't work in an MP game.

Once you get good at this game, Coalitions should not really be that much of a problem.

I would love to see Coalitions improved on for EU5. Having more dynamic Coalitions that team up on major threats would make the game more interesting. It is weird seeing coalitions formed against small HRE states but none really forming to challenge massive expansive Ottoman, French, or Muscovy states. I understand the mechanics and how the AI or humans as those countries get around it but it kind of defeats the purpose when I see Coalitions against a Milan or Florence while France is eating half of Europe.

[grognardgary]

As a general rule of thumb in any 4x or near 4x strategy game never leave the remains of an enemy in your wake. They will always come back to bite you. It is perfectly acceptable with some exception to take several small bites rather than one large one. But always finish meal before starting another

[Ashling]

Originally posted by volbound1700:

True but that wouldn't work in an MP game.

Is it an MP game? If it is, then that’s the game, gotta live with it. There’s really no reason to rehost someone because they mismanaged their country unless they’re moving on to a new one.

Originally posted by volbound1700:

Once you get good at this game, Coalitions should not really be that much of a problem.

It’s not my favorite mechanic. It slows down games even with proper management and can be a real player-moral killer. I get that France won 5 coalition wars in 17 years but lost the entire Napoleonic war after just one, 1 year loss so it’s “completely historically accurate” that you can’t dismantle/heavily take from (or really do anything reactively) to a coalition. It’s silly that, like you said, such heavy persistence is wasted on largely insignificant gains from small countries.

IMO the hard-line coalition mechanic is better suited to the end game where there’s meant to be a big “boss” fight against the revolution/being the boss as the revolution. There should be more wiggle room early game.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Triangle:

Originally posted by volbound1700:

True but that wouldn't work in an MP game.

Is it an MP game? If it is, then that’s the game, gotta live with it. There’s really no reason to rehost someone because they mismanaged their country unless they’re moving on to a new one.

Originally posted by volbound1700:

Once you get good at this game, Coalitions should not really be that much of a problem.

It’s not my favorite mechanic. It slows down games even with proper management and can be a real player-moral killer. I get that France won 5 coalition wars in 17 years but lost the entire Napoleonic war after just one, 1 year loss so it’s “completely historically accurate” that you can’t dismantle/heavily take from (or really do anything reactively) to a coalition. It’s silly that, like you said, such heavy persistence is wasted on largely insignificant gains from small countries.

IMO the hard-line coalition mechanic is better suited to the end game where there’s meant to be a big “boss” fight against the revolution/being the boss as the revolution. There should be more wiggle room early game.

I wasn't the victim of the Coalition, it was my friend. I was just explaining the cheat that I did to save his butt. He is more of a Vic2 player and has a hard time with EU4.

The key is that changes in mechanics could break gameplay but one thought that I had is that Coalitions should only form against Great Powers. Even then though, it would be broken.

I also think the game should stop at 1700 and Paradox should make a new game for 1700s and Napoleonic era. The game mechanics of EU4 work great from historical perspective for 1444-1600s but they really do not fit 1700s era for a variety of reasons.

[MasterYi]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

As a general rule of thumb in any 4x or near 4x strategy game never leave the remains of an enemy in your wake. They will always come back to bite you. It is perfectly acceptable with some exception to take several small bites rather than one large one. But always finish meal before starting another

Yeah, I conquered south-western France for my vassal Gascony, I then improved relations with France now they love me and wanna ally me

[grognardgary]

Yeah I'm just barely into the 16 century got most of Ireland without firing a shot expect to have the rest of it soon. Unfortunately the same tactic doesn't work for scotland though it appears I may stumble into a pu and be able to claim the scottish throne

[_Joe___]

Originally posted by MasterYi:

You should also be the one attacking the coalition while it is still small instead of letting it grow, you being the attacker instead of the defender also has the added benefit of the coalition members not having an extra -30 reasons to peace out due to the “coalition war” modifier”.

I think I'm the reason this coalition exists. There was a lot of clicking worrisome and now I'm in the war.

I had allies. They looked at the odds and said 'new phone, who dis?'

[_Joe___]

Originally posted by bri:

You're losing 2 of the wars so why, exactly, would the coalitions make a friendly-ish peace with you when they all hate you (which is what triggered the coalition to begin with). That said, you might be able to get rid of the ones not beating you too badly with things like breaking alliances and throwing money at them depending on who exactly is leading them. The one crushing you you'll need to turn around or give real concessions to get rid of.

I know I likely should't apply real-world logic to the circumstances but I'm sending dozens of ships to watery graves. A bunch of nations across the globe are sinking money and troops into me sinking their ships. Logically they should tire of this behavior. There's nothing more in it for them.

The coalitions themselves aren't the problem. The problem is the AI doesn't recognize the stalemate. There's no more progress to be made. The wars aren't achieving anything. But as a result of the wars I have unending war weariness and non-stop revolts. I can put the revolts down and sink navies forever. The issue is I don't want to do it forever. The game is stuck in this chapter and cannot turn the page. The game didn't end, I didn't lose but there's no fun to be had like this. I don't want to concede defeat for a war I didn't lose just because playing through the war isn't fun any longer.

[grognardgary]

Ah the heady days of the hundred years war when allies and enemies change sides at the drop of a hat...

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by _Joe___:

Originally posted by bri:

You're losing 2 of the wars so why, exactly, would the coalitions make a friendly-ish peace with you when they all hate you (which is what triggered the coalition to begin with). That said, you might be able to get rid of the ones not beating you too badly with things like breaking alliances and throwing money at them depending on who exactly is leading them. The one crushing you you'll need to turn around or give real concessions to get rid of.

I know I likely should't apply real-world logic to the circumstances but I'm sending dozens of ships to watery graves. A bunch of nations across the globe are sinking money and troops into me sinking their ships. Logically they should tire of this behavior. There's nothing more in it for them.

The coalitions themselves aren't the problem. The problem is the AI doesn't recognize the stalemate. There's no more progress to be made. The wars aren't achieving anything. But as a result of the wars I have unending war weariness and non-stop revolts. I can put the revolts down and sink navies forever. The issue is I don't want to do it forever. The game is stuck in this chapter and cannot turn the page. The game didn't end, I didn't lose but there's no fun to be had like this. I don't want to concede defeat for a war I didn't lose just because playing through the war isn't fun any longer.

Sounds like the stalemate itself is in their favor. As long as the war keeps you on the ropes, you're not conquering more stuff. If they end the war, you start conquering again. And burning through men and ships may be costly, but it's better than being conquered outright. So why would they ever let up?

Don't know if you've ever read the Silmarillion, but from the coalitions' standpoint you're basically Morgoth. A forever war is worth it compared to what they know you'd do with a peace.

Granted, that probably doesn't make grinding through that war any more fun for you. Best to take it as a lesson in the importance of AE management; even if coalitions can't beat you, they can make sure you don't win.

[bri]

Originally posted by _Joe___:

Originally posted by bri:

You're losing 2 of the wars so why, exactly, would the coalitions make a friendly-ish peace with you when they all hate you (which is what triggered the coalition to begin with). That said, you might be able to get rid of the ones not beating you too badly with things like breaking alliances and throwing money at them depending on who exactly is leading them. The one crushing you you'll need to turn around or give real concessions to get rid of.

I know I likely should't apply real-world logic to the circumstances but I'm sending dozens of ships to watery graves. A bunch of nations across the globe are sinking money and troops into me sinking their ships. Logically they should tire of this behavior. There's nothing more in it for them.

The coalitions themselves aren't the problem. The problem is the AI doesn't recognize the stalemate. There's no more progress to be made. The wars aren't achieving anything. But as a result of the wars I have unending war weariness and non-stop revolts. I can put the revolts down and sink navies forever. The issue is I don't want to do it forever. The game is stuck in this chapter and cannot turn the page. The game didn't end, I didn't lose but there's no fun to be had like this. I don't want to concede defeat for a war I didn't lose just because playing through the war isn't fun any longer.

-40+ war score means you did lose though, and significantly.