Native Americans and Conquest of Paradise

[Edhelras]

Hi, I wanted to play as a native tribe. I've got almost all DLCs, but not Conquest of Paradise. Is it feasible/worth it playing as natives, without that DLC? I've read that it might ruin your other games, so it would need to be turned off unless playing as a native (the random map generator isn't interesting to me).

I've started playing as the Choosa (?) tribe, after many decades managed to expand to 4 provinces (made some mistakes, I've should have 7 actually). It's OK, but I wonder what will happen when the Europeans arrive.

On one side, I do wish the game to be kind of realistic, in that European technology and cynicism may overwhelm the natives, i.e. you need to be really smart and strong to withstand them. I was thinking building a mighty enough native empire to withstand the first onslaughts, and then develop technology to be able to compete with the weak colonial nations, until I might form a true viable empire in North America.

On the other hand, if the game makes it almost impossible to succeed, I'm not sure if I would bother playing, just to be overwhelmed without any possibility to succeed even if I try my best.

So I wonder - is Conquest of Paradise absolutely necessary for playing a native American tribe?

[RCMidas]

It's not vital, but certainly helpful. Or maybe it used to be. The problem is that it's such an old DLC, one of the very first released, that I've simply no idea what parts of it are entirely locked behind the DLC or have been introduced in shape or form to the main game in the years since.

Generally though, the trick to playing as a native is to know the mechanics inside-out and go absolutely berserk so that you are massive as possible when the Europeans do arrive - and then make sure you are ready to dogpile on their colonial nations the INSTANT they spawn so that you can upgrade from a mere tribe to a real country and stand something of a chance.

Playing as a native, regardless of DLC, is also generally considered a "not fun" experience. Not in the way that Dwarf Fortress says "losing is fun" but it is an actively unenjoyable time. Their inclusion has actively worsened the performance of the game as a whole due to the need to process all of their decisions, and the inclusion of varying tribes over others is inconsistent and mostly irrelevant anyway since they all get next to no unique features and invariably swallowed up within a few years of meeting the Europeans.

The settled Mesoamericans and the Inca, especially with the Winds of Change DLC, can actually be an interesting challenge akin to an African or Indian minor nation though. Some of the things they can do are even fun.

I guess the ultimate question comes down to: how comfortable are you with the game anyway?

[Edhelras]

Thank you for this very helpful reply!
It's kind of what I suspected, then. Very sad, I would love to give the natives a try. I appreciate your "not fun" description.
I'm quite comfortable with the game by now, but I loathe having to minmax and metagame in order to just get a decent fighting chance. I wonder why or how they couldn't make the natives more interesting, after so many years. Although, I guess it IS Europa Universalis, after all....

Thanks again, I'll give a shot at Benin in stead...

[MarVerine]

Just a quick FYI on north america!
Its the worst place to play in EU4, everyone has at least 4 allies all 1 prov minors with 10k armies a couple of months into gamestart. Hunting down armies is impossible as the ai is omnipotent and sees your army move and flees into woods and fog of war the insant you go for them, thus prolongin every war to eternity.
Next are the Europeans that even after you stackwipe 200k spaniards they remain on high as you are not sieging their european land etc.

But if this does not stop you have fun.