Protip: Never go Quantity

[Doug_Dimmadome]

I made the mistake of going with Quantity ideas because I found myself lacking in manpower after a series of wars. Well, it's kicking my ass later on in the game. It's cool that I have a huge manpower base and all, but it doesn't do crap when I can go up against a smaller force and get beaten.

Quality over Quantity chaps, lest you end up getting kicked in the balls by lowly states who have better troops than you.

[Free Luigi M.]

Quantity is actually pretty good when paired with Defensive and Quality. Or do you actually plan on playing through your whole game with only a single military idea? Manpower is arguably one of the most important elements in a war.

[Ghost]

Quantity AND Quality my friend.

[Shin]

It really is a terrible idea. When most of the time people tell you Quantity works well "paired" with something. Quantity on it's own it terrible and doesn't even come close to the effectiveness of Offensive, Quality or Defensive. In fact, just taking those three I listed will have you in an excellent position. Quantity needs a buff... Because alone, it's just terrible.

Even compared to Aristrocracy... it's garbage. At LEAST you get the -10% military tech which can be huge with Aristocracy. Honestly, I just ignore Quantity all together.

[Shin]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Quantity is actually pretty good when paired with Defensive and Quality. Or do you actually plan on playing through your whole game with only a single military idea? Manpower is arguably one of the most important elements in a war.

I'd argue Morale and Discipline are more important. Morale and Discipline are the most difficult to acquire. Manpower, you can literally just throw Monarch points and cash to bring it up. But the other two stats, no so much. With the limited slots available, I would use them on ideas that give either Discipline or Morale. Anything outside that, isn't as important. Especially when your discipline is floating around 130% and then throw in the high morale. I've seen a 40k Ottomans with Disc and Morale focus demolish 200k Russians... Yeah... I'll stick to morale and disc...

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by Shin:

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Quantity is actually pretty good when paired with Defensive and Quality. Or do you actually plan on playing through your whole game with only a single military idea? Manpower is arguably one of the most important elements in a war.

I'd argue Morale and Discipline are more important. Morale and Discipline are the most difficult to acquire. Manpower, you can literally just throw Monarch points and cash to bring it up. But the other two stats, no so much. With the limited slots available, I would use them on ideas that give either Discipline or Morale. Anything outside that, isn't as important. Especially when your discipline is floating around 130% and then throw in the high morale. I've seen a 40k Ottomans with Disc and Morale focus demolish 200k Russians... Yeah... I'll stick to morale and disc...

Stick to whatever you want. Everything has a place in the right situation. Quantity can do wonders when picked at the appropriate time and place. In some cases you can have all the discipline and morale you want, but with 0 mapower you can't do anything. A good player knows when to pick one or the other, without limiting himself in premade paths "this is always better than this one".

[Shin]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Originally posted by Shin:

I'd argue Morale and Discipline are more important. Morale and Discipline are the most difficult to acquire. Manpower, you can literally just throw Monarch points and cash to bring it up. But the other two stats, no so much. With the limited slots available, I would use them on ideas that give either Discipline or Morale. Anything outside that, isn't as important. Especially when your discipline is floating around 130% and then throw in the high morale. I've seen a 40k Ottomans with Disc and Morale focus demolish 200k Russians... Yeah... I'll stick to morale and disc...

Stick to whatever you want. Everything has a place in the right situation. Quantity can do wonders when picked at the appropriate time and place. In some cases you can have all the discipline and morale you want, but with 0 mapower you can't do anything. A good player knows when to pick one or the other, without limiting himself in premade paths "this is always better than this one".

Maybe, but the fact that you can get manpower by building military buildings and developing the economy and only get discpline and Morale through prestige, advisors and Ideas says to me, that they are more valuable. Also, zero manpower is bad in almost any situation, using that as an argument seems... odd...

Don't misinform people. Morale and Discipline are very important in war. A one to one comparison will always have quantity on the losing end (compared to offensive, quality and defensive and arguably even Aristocracy because they would naturally get a tech advantage long term.) and with some very small investments into Military buildings, you don't need the extra troops. the way combat is written, there really is no good reason to take Quantity. In Multiplayer it's considered suicide to take it first... which speaks volumes about how truly effective it is.

[The Rainmaker]

quantity sucks especially since you dont really need manpower as bad when you have quality and defensive maxed out.

Id say it goes Defense > Quality = Offensive >>> Quantity

[Shin]

If you're looking for the optimized pick. It's like...

Offensive, Quality, Defensive, Aristocracy then Quantity. (The first three are a must for any land power. If you don't take those three, and you're in Europe and in a competitive game, you're finished.)

[Bitter]

I actually didn't take any military idea but offensive in my commonwealth game, took over Russia and half of the HRE, stopped there because of the coring times.

[Doug_Dimmadome]

Originally posted by Brutus:

I actually didn't take any military idea but offensive in my commonwealth game, took over Russia and half of the HRE, stopped there because of the coring times.

And that's where I'm screwed as Poland. I went with Quantity because I had manpower issues, but now my stack of 20,000 troops have to be careful going against Teuton 5,000 armies. Even taking out the little 1 or 2 unit armies they recruit during a war can cause my armies problems.

Now I've had a Coalition called in on me including such names as The Hansa, a Denmark who has annexed all vassals, Muscovy, The Knights, Livonian Order, Bohemia, etc.

Safe to say that campaign is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ now.

[Jormundgand]

Mercs are the perfect replacement for Quantity, all it will cost you is money which you shouldn't have a lack of fairly early in the game anyway. Actually, Mercs are much better than quantity; you essentially have an endless supply of them and getting a few hundred thousands killed won't sap your manpower!

[Nabeghlavi]

There can be isolated incidents where quantity can really help. If you are a medium sized power looking to go up against a MUCH bigger power, those force limits can really help. Sure, I would never pick it first or second in the military tree, but I could see a case for it going third. This is especially true if you're a totally landlocked nation. You take offensive first, defensive second, and then depending on who you're up against and how often you're fighting, you might be tempted to take quantity third. If you're landlocked, ideas 4-6 in quality are actually quite bad for you since they're navy only. With Quantity, the manpower increase, manpower regen, etc. are very helpful if you're in frequent wars and the +33% land force limits can really be the thing to break a stalemate. Sure, you could argue that you can pay over the force limit and that's true. But it's % based. So mid game, picking quantity 3rd, say you have a force limit of 100. going 50% over, that's 150. But all of a sudden, you get 33% force limits. You go over that same percent and now 133 over 50% and you're at almost 200 units. That's huge, it wins wars, it turns tides. Assuming your army has good leaders and at least offensive and defensive first, I think quantity can really help if you're the underdog. Also, one other thing to consider is that AI nations consider your army size when sizing up alliances. This could possibly boost things your direction. A minor point, but something to be considered : ) Hope this helps.