Is worth to force spawn Renaissance if I'm in the ass of the world?

[Rialm]

So I've been playing in Majahapit and the biggest downside that I found playing so far away of Europe was Renaissance. I learn really late that I could spawn renaissance and since there are so many bonuses to reduce development cost I imagine that this is the way to fix this giant debuff generated by not having renaissance.
Should I force Renaissance always when I play in Japan, or south asia Korea etc?
Or it's better to wait for it if I'm certain that I won't be dealing with any developed country from Europe?

In Majahapit case, I feel that I will definitely have Spain/Portugal or France sharping the knifes by 1600.

Thanks once again!

[Rodi]

You want to get institutions very quickly, yes

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Rodi:

You want to get institutions very quickly, yes

Okay, thanks. Because I could handle my neighbor despite being stuck some techs but against Europe. I felt the pressure so hard.

[Medicles]

You should always force spawn Renaissance, Colonialism and Printing Press outside of Europe and even in Europe its not a bad idea.

[MasterYi]

You want to force spawn Renaissance as well as Colonialism (if ur not doing a colonial campaign), and Printing Press any time you are playing outside of Europe (this includes Scandinavia and Russia too), you don’t want to be paying the tech penalty, it’s just inefficient, better to use those points to develop which improves your economy and manpower and gives progress towards Renaissance instead of it just disappearing into thin air.

Having the latest institution means you will have a tech advantage over your neighbours so you can defeat them more easily, think of it as gaining an advantage over your neighbours instead of you playing catch up to the Europeans.

-Development Cost Modifiers:

Golden Era (-10%)
100 Innovativeness (-10%)
Prosperity (-10%)
Encourage Development State Edict (-10%)
Capital City (Scaling)
Cloth and Cotton provinces (-10%)
Lv3 Trade Centre (-10% for the entire state)
Loyal Burghers (-10% if they have at least 60% influence)
Embraced Renaissance (-5%)
Economic Ideas (-10%)
Tropical City Planning for nations with their capital in a tropical province (-5%)
Trading in Tropical Wood, be the lead producer of this good (-5%)
Some religions (e.g. Maliki scholars for Sunni -10%)
Farmlands Terrain (-5%)
Inwards Perfection Clergy Privilege (up to -33% scaling with your Clergy land ownership), but they should have that high ownership and you get -1 stab for declaring wars; so only take it if you can revoke it immediately after you finished your dev cycle.
Expand Infrastructure (-25%, can be clicked at every 15 dev; so -25% at 15 dev, -50% at 30 dev, and -75% at 45 dev).

[Rialm]

Originally posted by MasterYi:

Tropical City Planning for nations with their capital in a tropical province (-5%).

LOL this is what happen to me for not reading and destroying Merchant guilds loyalty. I will try better next time I play as Majahapit.

Thanks for the list!

I'm thinking of playing as Korea, should I take advantage of Inward perfection (it gives a bonus for development cost) despite the awful minus for expanding? Since there is not much place to go until I'm capable to fight Japan?

[Kapika96]

You should be devving for nearly every institution, even if you're in Europe! Waiting for it to spread to you is a terrible waste. It's not even worth waiting for it to spread from say Italy to Scandinavia, I can't even imagine how long it would take to get to India! :O

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

, I can't even imagine how long it would take to get to India! :O

In my case it took 200 years that's when I realize oh ♥♥♥♥ I could have spawned in my capital, which indirectly the devs motivates the player to do it by doing one of the mission in Majahapit, I imagine to unlock Renaissance.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Rialm:

Originally posted by Kapika96:

, I can't even imagine how long it would take to get to India! :O

In my case it took 200 years :celeste_granny::celeste_granny: that's when I realize oh ♥♥♥♥ I could have spawned in my capital, which indirectly the devs motivates the player to do it by doing one of the mission in Majahapit, I imagine to unlock Renaissance.

So nearly 200 years of increased cost tech? Wow! :O

Personally I nearly never pay increased tech costs. The only exceptions are when the penalty is small and there's a benefit to taking it early (eg. innovativeness, or an idea group etc.), I want to avoid losing innovativeness (not likely to be an issue for Renaissance though, since you won't have much yet) or it's a military tech (being behind on military tech can cost you wars that you should be winning, it's definitely the most important to keep up to date).

So when there's a tech penalty I'll try and save my points up to dev the institution as soon (and as efficiently) as possible. Try and time things like estate loyalty for the burger bonus, privileges (eg. exclusive trade rights), religious bonuses, state edicts etc. to make devving as cheap as possible when you do it.

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

So nearly 200 years of increased cost tech? Wow! :Ot.

I was abusing the fact that I can get a bonus from my neighbous. That's why I did not have much problem against my neighbours. Because the advantage of being in the ass of the war and having the AI pushing tech and not anything else is that it's manageable being a bit slower. The big disadvantage I don't have innovativeness which sucks.

The problem is that the game penalize you for pushing it for so long. So I mostly started developing my country and getting rich. The problem was mostly when Spain got Galleons(tech 15). If I had my Galleass (tech 14) I would destroy for several bonuses that you get with Malaya and other stuff.
And since Naval engangemnt width you need tech 18, I could push a bit more that.

Next time I will try to get as soon as possible renaissance, specially if I know I'm against Europe. edit( or at least when I feel threatened. Because If I push renaissance I give it to China or Japan.)

[Medicles]

Make it a habit of yours to spawn Renaissance, Colonialism and Printing Press with every nation you are playing. Especially Renaissance favours it because you will also finish the age objective of having a province with 30 dev.

All institutions spawn about every 50 years, beginning at 1450 with Renaissance. Usually you want to get level 4 in all technologies first (especially military) and then save up points to spawn Renaissance. Sometimes you are in a different position and want military tech 5 before Renaissance, so you get that extra military boost for an important early war, or you lack administrative points because you were fast expanding, like in Africa or Japan. In these situations you have to adapt a little and your Renaissance spawn comes later than usual.

But that is usually only happening during Renaissance, since it comes so early into the game. When Colonisation hits, you should already be perfectly prepared, be at the highest tech possible and have safed up monarch points to spawn it immediately, same as with Printing Press.

Just make it a habit and it will soon be standard for you and you will never be behind tech ever again.

[ChaffyExpert]

You should pretty much always force spawn all institutions before global trade, unless it spawns right next to you.

This is the only time developing is worthwhile.

[MasterYi]

Originally posted by Rialm:

Originally posted by MasterYi:

Tropical City Planning for nations with their capital in a tropical province (-5%).

LOL this is what happen to me for not reading and destroying Merchant guilds loyalty. I will try better next time I play as Majahapit.

Thanks for the list!

I'm thinking of playing as Korea, should I take advantage of Inward perfection (it gives a bonus for development cost) despite the awful minus for expanding? Since there is not much place to go until I'm capable to fight Japan?

No, because you should aim for high Crownland and low Estate land ownership, plus everytime you dev you increase crownland and decrease your estate’s ownership so you are getting decreasing returns from the dev cost modifier.

Idk the exact numbers for Korea but most countries with 3 estates would have approx 23% land ownership by each Estate (if distributed equally), so you are only getting a fraction of the possible -33% dev cost if the Clergy has 100% land ownership.

+100% CCR and +200% Province warscore cost are not worth it either.

This privilege also has +20 Influence which will lower your crownland equilibrium making you loose land upon conquest if your equilibrium is low enough.

You can take Inwards Perfection for big dev cycle like pushing Renaissance etc when you saved all your mana points up to the cap, then immediately revoke it afterwards but do note it takes -5 crownland everytime you take this privilege so you’ll barely break even in terms of Crownland gain.

You have 1 possible neighbour to fight at the game start, that being Orochen which you border via a sea tile, so you either have to navally invade them or gain military access from Jianzhou, after annexing Orochen you can expand into the other Jurchen/Siberian minors and Ainu (giving you a foothold on the Japanese Isles) until your 5yr truce with Jianzhou is up.

Korea Guide:
1: Do not immediately harmonise Animism, low Harmony gives you increased dev cost, whereas high Harmony gives you decreased dev cost, only do it after you have developed Renaissance.

2: You are in much better position than Majapahit to spawn Colonialism cuz Northeast Asia is closer to the New World, your starting king is a 6 6 5 I think, and most importantly you don’t start off in a disaster. If you manage to spawn Colonialism you can set behind the Europeans giving you a slight advantage when you confront them later.

Usually you would colonise Southern Sakhalin or the Kurils to get colonial range for Eastern Siberia then Colonial Alaska, but the latest update made Southern Sakhalin and the Kurils owned by Ainu so you have to conquer them, which is faster than colonising anyways.

3: War against Ming - fight them on low Mandate, bleed their manpower on your mountain forts. Take the Mandate in your first war so you can unlock the Unify China CB in your second war which is quite broken giving you free cores on all provinces you occupy in the China region, and 50% warscore cost. So you don’t even generate AE cuz Korea and Ming are the only Confucian nations in the world, you don’t have to waste Admin points coring or suffer OE issues, so more points for developing.

4: War against Japan - Let them annex some tags first because the less tags they have the weaker they are due to Daimyos having their own base manpower, economy, loan cap, and capital forts much like the HRE.

5: Pirate So - That pink OPM on the island of Tsushima can be very annoying if they decide to flip to a Pirate Republic and start raiding you every 5 years, preventing you from gaining prosperity in your provinces, this is a problem since you are a Peninsula so all of your States are coastal. The fort in Pusan increase how fast you recover from Devastation but only for provinces bordering the fort and you will never reach 100 Prosperity even with forts anyways if you keep getting raided.

You can scum save until they choose to remain as a monarchy, or you can do it the hard way, declare on So, blockade the rest of Japan, wait for ticking warscore then annex them.

6: Idea Groups -
1st - Innovative: This Idea Group is best when taken earlier since you have more time to benefit from its -10% tech cost and +50% innovativeness gain, most of your innovativeness should come from their early game too cuz of your god tier Ruler, less so later in the gain as nations catch up with their mana generation.

2nd - Diplomatic: -25% warscore cost so you can chunk Ming faster, pairs well with the -50% warscore cost from the Unify China CB, you can get another -25% from the Age of Reformation bonus but you should have annexed all of China before then.

3rd - Admin: -25% CCR, more gov cap for more expansion.

4th - Humanist: Don’t take Religious since Confucianism punishes you for converting provinces, Humanist gives you more Harmony gain, less separatism, less revolts, faster AE decay like Diplomatic, and -10% Idea Cost (-20% if you get lucky with an event).

5th - Influence: Cheaper diplo-annexation (-45%), more relation slots, higher dip rep.

You can switch up which order you take these Ideas ofc, and can switch out either Diplomatic or Influence Ideas for Exploration if you plan on going Colonial.

[Khatulistiwa]

You must, Majapahit got a bunch of cotton province too, got dev cost discount there

[akhand bharat gaming]

dude i force spawn the renaissance even when i am playing a hre nation i cannot imagine how long it will take for the renaissance to reach java

[bri]

Renaissance, in general, is a toss-up. If I'm likely to get it by 1466 via conquest or spread then Ill take the hit on tech 5 as 270 dev is substantially less than the cost to dev for it. The same sort of thinking applies to colonialism and printing press. Anything after that is never worth spending mp to get. Sure, having mega-provinces is nice and all but that same 2kish mp can do a whole lot of other things for you instead...