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But they are terrible. 2 of the worst idea groups in the game. IMO the only worthwhile idea they have is the +25% marines, that's it. The other military ideas aren't really needed either, but they're all still better than naval. And since it seems like it's naval combat you care about here, quality would actually do better for that than maritime would.
Also, the Ottomans aren't hard to beat navally. They spam galleys, which is hard to fight early game unless you can compete with their numbers (although if you've united Italy you should have the cash to do that anyway). By mid game their usefulness falls off and you can easily smash their fleet with a much smaller fleet full of heavies. They have numbers, but their quality is usually pretty poor.
Spain are more difficult since they focus on heavies, and with they're colonies they're going to have a huge naval force limit. You don't actually need to beat their navy though. They're probably going to be spread out around the world giving you an opportunity to ferry your troops and blockade things with easy at the beginning of the war, plus if you get access through France you don't even need to worry if you're unable to beat their fully navy when it comes back. After you win a war or two against them they shouldn't really have the economy to support a navy large enough to beat Italy's either.
Thanks for taking your time to reply.
I never thought about Quality Ideas, and now it seems like the better choice.
Since Italy has + Galley combat ability I felt like its natural for me to go for them, and the main problem was naval force limit, wich Maritime gives +50%, so it really felt like a game changer, and since I never planned to expand beyond the mediterranean, I never thought about going heavy ships. Feel kinda odd that everything is set up for galleys but the better option is still heavy ships...
But I digress. Ill give heavy ships a chance. Thanks again man.
Important things to note:
1: High manoeuvre Admirals are preferred over a high fire/shock pip Admiral because manoeuvre increases your naval combat width which is much more important.
2: Unless you are fighting an extremely inferior enemy navy, always detach your Light Ships and Transports, they’re not very good in combat and loosing ships will cause you to lose moral which means more damage and it becomes a snowball effect making you loose the battle harder and faster
3: Build a flagship and select +3 Engagement Width and Fleet Morale, the third and final buff can be anything you want but these two buffs are the most important for combat
4: Select the +15% Galley Combat Ability Naval Doctrine for more quality, usually I would take the +33% Chance to Capture Enemy Ships, cuz it saves you money from building your own.
5: Mix in a few Heavies with your galleys cuz apparently they can tank the damage of the enemy better due to their bigger hull size (something I heard from YouTubers).
6: Galleys are more cost effective than Heavies for Inland Seas, which is perfect for Italy, the only slight issue is the sea tile “Straits of Gibraltar” is Open Sea (if Spain has land in North Africa and you need to cross the straits) so you’ll lose your increased combat ability but can still win due to sheer numbers
7: Do not go over your Engagement Width (Heavy ships have an engagement width of 3, whereas all other ships only have 1), say your Engagement Width is 30, you should only send in 10 Heavies or 30 Galleys in the first wave, then start to reinforce that stack with other ships waiting in line
8: Rotate your fleets, like the above point this is very micro-management, not often needed for the AI but is common in Multiplayer.
Your ships will repair in ports at the start of every month tick, so what you should do is start a battle then retreat to a friendly port (preferably your own cuz allied ports repair your ships slower even if they have a Shipyard) just before the month ends e.g. 29th August, then send out your 2nd fleet which is healthy to engage the enemy fleet which has been batted by your 1st fleet but cannot escape to repair because you engaged it again.
Repeat this process until their navy is sunk.
9: Do not spam shipyards everywhere, instead build them at strategic locations so your ships can repair faster e.g. Cyprus for the Eastern Med, Malta for the Central Med, and Dahra for the Western Med.
10: Blockading an enemy port where their fleet is repairing will slow down their repair speed, allowing you to inflict greater damage the next time you engage.
Just dont bother too much with engaging their navies at all, you can win against ottomans with out ships aswell
Venice is my favorite nation to form Italy with, and I have a great deal of experience with it. Let me share some tips with you:
1) Your first war should be against Byzantium, to vassalize it. You're neighbors, so start fabricating a claim on Day 1 and attack as soon as you can.
2) Ally Poland and Austria. Improve relations with Austria quickly and join the HRE before you get too large. Then you don't have to wait on attacking the Italian HRE nations until after the Shadow Kingdom incident removes them from the Empire.
3) Curry favors with Austria and Poland. Once you have enough, call them into a war against the Ottomans for the Byzantine cores. Keep going to war with the Ottomans whenever the truce timer expires and eat all of their land.
4) While expanding in Italy and against the Ottomans, you also want to take over everything in the Ragusa trade node. Ragusa feeds directly into Venice, and Constantinople feeds into Ragusa. Get total control of both.
5) Get rid of your Republic as fast as possible so that you can be elected Emperor. The added force limit and governing capacity from being Emperor are great, and the vassal swarm is the strongest force in the game.
6) Do NOT take Naval or Maritime ideas. Instead, take the Big Three in the following order: Diplo--Admin--Influence. Religion makes a great fourth idea.
7) Since you have Greek as an accepted culture, and since you need manpower and tax income in the early game, go ahead and state Greek provinces after you annex Byzantium. You should also state the Serbian gold mine. But aside from that, put everything else you can into trade companies (TCs). You want the extra merchants and the lower governing cost.
Follow these steps and you can look like this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911064515
I'm Emperor and have revoked the privilege. Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Novgorod, and the Teutonic Order were forced into the Empire prior to revocation and are thus my HRE vassals, too. Aragon, Muscovy, the Timurids, and Kazakh are normal vassals. A world conquest would be easy at this point, if I continued the campaign.
Trade ideas would be better, especially with that region you get extra money, plus with Humanist ideas you can get a policy that has -10% idea costs, totalling with humanist's ideas for -20% idea costs, all for taking ideagroups that you would probably take anyways because both trade and humanist are strong picks anyways.
As Marquoz said though Admin, diplo and influence are the top 3, to pick
Id say after that humanist and trade rather than religious. Religious is more useful when you are surrounded by Heretics and heathens to use the CB on. Italy is naturally a great trade spot, so trade and humanist makes more sense to me personally.
Part a of this isn't really correct, the two idea groups are pretty good at what they do. The real issue is that part b is 110% correct. Unless for some reason you need to be able to out-navy someone like GB or Japan without having an extensive coastline to just bury them under waves of ships there is absolutely no reason to have a significant navy, let alone buff it out with ideas. Wars are won on the ground and trade is all about owning the right land, having an awe-inspiring navy does nothing to help you win...
Ya i meant overall.
MP is a different story though.