Kongo strategy guides?

[Killer of Gems]

I have recently been trying out sub saharan nations both single player and multiplayer and i was wondering what is the best way to reform the government and westernize? would it be to vassalize the other subsaharan nations before Portugal arrives and maintain naval superiority at tech 2 so the other sub saharans can't get a navy? or is it to simply wait and bide your time or is there another way that i am not thinking of?

[CidDaBird]

Its basically luck truthfully, but yes you mainly need to bide your time until you ether meet the northern african tribes (Mali etc) which will at least give you some fun inbetween the waiting game and meeting Portugal which should plop a colony by your newly formed territory in northern africa then try to last from there.

But I never got as far as that because of rebels and really bad rulers, I hope you have better luck than myself. :) Good luck.

[freestyler-rs]

same as vanilla native americans! Save admin ideas for exploration, colonize and get strategical depth for colonial wars and work your way towards possible vassals/conquests that you can integrate before westernizing and catching up. You're in a better tech group than the native americans so this should be quite doable.

Oh and the West african gold mines look enticing. I'd advise taking them asap. Either you wait till you got exploration completed (free cb on all pagans) or you take the stability hit and kill or vassalize Benin as a foothold when you either have transports or a conquistador. Another option would be getting a royal marriage with Benin or someone else and hope you can claim their throne at some point and get a free cb.

[Bandit17]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/236850/discussions/0/540742667469896060/

I wrote that for 1.5 but other than the Chuck Norris like rebels it should be about the same.

[Killer of Gems]

what about needing to complete the ideas to reform your government to westernize in the new patch?

[Bandit17]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Killer of Gems:

what about needing to complete the ideas to reform your government to westernize in the new patch?

Does that affect Kongo as they get an event that changes their government? I know in 1.5 you accept the Portuguese Missionaries and once you get the event to convert to Catholic than you get the decision to transform your government as well. I'm not up to speed on all the 1.6 changes with regards to Kongo though.

[Killer of Gems]

oh i didn't know about that thanks for the help!

[Bandit17]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Killer of Gems:

oh i didn't know about that thanks for the help!

No problem. Good luck!

[Bandit17]

Keep in mind that now that Expansion has switched over to an admin Idea it will now be trickier to take Expansion and Innovative back to back as I have it in that guide. So you might want to only fill in a couple slots in that Expansion Idea (you really just need that extra colonist early on) while you tech up admin and work on getting and finishing the very important Innovative Idea.

You could take Expansion 3rd but than you get a slower start on colonizing and keeping Europeans out of Africa.

[Sir Slasher]

i cant see kongo winning this patch""*(

what i hate the most the 86- 140 years to even unlock 1st idea....

[freestyler-rs]

I did a quick test run, the portuguese missionaries are still coming in Vanilla even with most recent patch and beta. So the government change will probably happen as well. Also tested the aggressive strategy and found it to be very lacking of real opportunities since you can't assimilate Benin before Diplo level 3 and the AE you get from vassalizing Hausa will prevent you from integrating them for a long time. Not worth all the lost admin points. Not to be recommended unless you happen to get lucky and get some free casus belli... Just sit and farm admin points and when you can colonize, take what you can. From then it's a pretty standard uphill game.

Did a waiting start as well and killed off my 1/6/2 heir when I had the chance (1 admin is inacceptable) and collapsed to Pretender rebels on purpose twice (Once because I couldn't beat them anyways and once because I wanted that 3/4/4 pretender as new king instead of my 1/5/4 king). Got negative prestige and low legitimacy now but pretty happy with the ruler I got Heir is a 6/1/4 with a weak claim (event offered him). Colonizing should start at around 1510...

Regarding the Reform Government thing: shold the event not happen, you'll have to save more admin till you're level 7. Then probably go economic for the inflation reduction for all the gold you're getting. =)

[Bandit17]

@Freestyler-rs, Kongo can't take Economic early as they HAVE to take Expansion and Innovative. They can take Economic after that if they wish but not prior. Doing so will cripple their colonial and tech efforts which MUST be given prioity to keep as much of Africa under Kongo rule and to catch up in tech in the mid to late 1600's.

I haven't tested my aggressive tactics in that guide in 1.6 but Kongo has to wait a very long time before they can do anything of significance. Which is why I felt it was best to take the stab hit and invade Benin, fab claims on their neighbors, release Benin as a vassal and than invade and vassal neighbors.

You than sit on them for a long time until you have fully converted all provinces to Catholic and have changed government. Then integrate. By this time all AE is long gone, it keeps other Europeans from taking them and the added vassal income (even though minimal at best) is a nice added bonus. I just found it better than doing nothing for the long openning stretch of the game.

[Bandit17]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sir Slasher:

i cant see kongo winning this patch""*(

what i hate the most the 86- 140 years to even unlock 1st idea....

The biggest hurdle will be the rebels. The real key to success for Kongo not only rides in massive and aggressive colonial expansion but more importantly in catching up in tech to Europe. Because eventually Kongo is going to need to defeat Spain and Portugal (maybe France) to win back any foreign held African land.

The key to catching up is through the Innovative Idea because after 1650 that awesome Scientific Revolution event hits. The downside is you get +8RR in every provence for 20 years. So you might be right that Kongo has now become much harder with 1.6. So the key will be to make sure your economy, allies and army is well established before that event strikes so you can survive it. Once you do you're off to the races.

[freestyler-rs]

I'd debate on that. I see your point but with the stab hit from attacking Benin you add something like 6 years on your colonization start, more if you're unlucky. 6 years is huge when trying to secure stuff. And it will not help you because you will not get to your true goal which are the Mali and Ashanti gold mines and the effective colony block for the coast so that the AI colonizers can go ♥♥♥♥ themselves. You will get stuck because you cannot integrate Hausa since as of 1.6 you get a bajillion of AE with them for vassalizing them and it won't go away since you have no easy way to farm Prestige and events aren't likely to be in your favour in terms of Prestige. I tried it and landed at +60 total relations with the +200 for maxed out relations already included and -2 AE per year. Portugal and Castille tend to take their time with anything further than north of Mali because it's not cost-effective for them until the good colonies in South America are already taken. And if you got exploration complete (which could be as soon as you hit level 4 Admin or relatively short thereafter if you should wish so) you get a free cb on Benin, Oyo and Ashanti (as well as some east african countries) anyways so no sweat. You even get an expansion of colony range so you can basically put your first or second colony next to them and fabricate if you're that impatient. Expansion is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea to take imho. There is no real trade to be steered, you only get ONE colonist, you don't need the extra relation at all and the bonus to colonies is worse than that of the exploration ideas. And it takes ADMIN POINTS. ADMIN POINTS ARE PURE GOLD! Also you get no explorers and conquistadors so if there is fog of war at a critical point, you're screwed and the CB on nations in Asia as well as the diplomatic reputation are worthless. Innovative I would consider but tbh. you don't really need it superhard when you're already on the way to westernization. Economic ideas will give you the most needed inflation reduction and the economical base to abuse the ♥♥♥♥ out of your colonists. even while you westernize. The religious unity and all the other stuff is nice but as Kongo you can convert before westernizing so you don't really need it instantly. The random events are awesome however. I'd definitely consider it one of the if not the best choice as third idea though. Or maybe as second if you didn't manage to get your hands on the gold mines.

[Bandit17]

@freestyler-rs, I will not argue my aggressive start strategy because things have changed in 1.6 and I have yet to retest it. But I will stand extremely firm on the fact that if you want to not only regain control of all of Africa but also DOMINATE your European foes than Exploration, Expansion (only get colonist and finish tree later) and Innovation (finish immediately) MUST be taken.

If you can go ahead and prove me wrong and I will happily admit my errors but the above I believe is essential to land grab via colonies, create larger alliances to combat Ottomans and European countries and to push trade from Spice Islands to Kongo.

Maybe on normal difficulty you can get away with a little more but this was done on Hard Difficulty/Ironman:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=263346231

I was making well over 500 ducats a month from trade and the ability to create a larger colonial empire faster is key to not only trade but to minimize how much fighting you have to do against Europe. Growing colonies in Africa is not the easiest thing to do so the added settler growth from Expansion is very nice.

And taking on Mali and Kiwa to get the gold mines is something that will not happen for a long long time as they will be stronger than Kongo for most of the early stages of the game.

If you don't take all three: Exploration, Expansion and Innovative you are just shooting yourself in the foot. I was able to beat ANY European power in the later stages of the game doing it this way. Even a 550k Spanish army was smashed and defeated on their home turf as my Kongo grabbed a foothold on their Iberian soil with no other European aid.

Edit: I would like to add that the new pip balances for units might make things very different for Kongo as well since westernizing no longer grants you western units.

[Sir Slasher]

is ironman locked in as hard?