Becoming HRE Emperor from non HRE and keeping it?

[Dray Prescot]

Suppose you do manage to become HRE Emperor from the outside the HRE as France, Spain Burgundy, etc by getting enough electors to vote for you. Now you use your position as Emperor to bring your territory, particularly your capital, into the HRE which makes you a HRE member. What happenes if you are large enough to be a Kingdom and choose to do so for its benifits before joining the HRE, and then you then lose a re election for emperor? I don't think you could have made youself an Elector normally. Reading the HRE rules for membership, it appears that you would be kicked out of the HRE for being a Kingdom and not an Elector and not the Emperor.
Could this strategy be used against Austria if they were big enough to be a Kingdom and lost re election to Emperor? Maybe, but not likely. I think that there is no reason for France, Austria, etc to make themselves a kingdom since if you are Emperor of the HRE you are counted as a kingdom anyway. I would guess this means that if are planning to try to be HRE Emperor do not make your country(monarchy) into a kingdom. Would Austria's status as HRE emperor and therefore defacto a kingdom, make Austria's status as a country become a kingdom de jure, if Austria the country meet the standards for Kingdom rank which are 300 development and 50 prestige? This also raises the question of can an already Kingdom rank country win election of the HRE if they are not an elector?
By the way, does Austria become an Elector very often, since I don't think they can do it as Emperor? Maybe they might get it while in a regency and not being emperor (since regencies do happen even to Austria), or while they had a female monarch? I doubt it (becoming an Elector) happens in most games. I think any Emperor who made Austria an Elector would be very foolish, unless they were a VERY close ally, maybe another member of the same dynasty. Regencies and Female Monarchies are probably the common reasons for Austria to lose the emperorship, at least until the next election, and if they had really bad luck they might be disqualified when the next election was held after losing it once. What would happen in a tie vote by the Electors if Austria (or the old emperor's country) was disqualified for an election?
A seperate question, if a non Christian power such as the Ottoman Empire forces a HRE member to change religion to his non Christin religion, does that HRE state keep its HRE membership? What if it was an Elector? What if it was the Emperor? I suspect that there are checks somewhere in the game mechanics for religious status and current HRE membership, particularly after all the discussion about the Peace of Westphalia and religious denominations. Can non Christian provinces (not countires) be considered members of the HRE? Maybe thay would be considered non HRE territory held by HRE members.

[Kelldath]

I do not know about bringing your whole nation into the empire as a kingdom, as I precisely always avoided that when being elected as an outsider. However, you can add all of your provinces to the HRE except your capital. Let the imperial authority decay, insult electors and such, and when a new emperor is chose, he'll end up with a massive amount of provinces owned by a non-HRE member, crippling his IA to 0.

For your last question, you cannot force conversion between different religious groups, so Ottomans will not be able to convert christians countries.
However, non christian provinces, as well as non christian nations can be considered members of the HRE, however unlikely it is (you can make it happen with custom nations though).

[Mikey]

If you lose the status of emperor or elector you will also get demoted from kingdom to duchy. You won't get kicked out of the empire

[Dray Prescot]

Thanks to Mikehsan. According to HRE wiki, if a non-elector state forms a nation, e.g. Netherlands (Holland is a duchy), that new nation will leave the HRE. Presumably, the same would be true of forming an empire, as difficult as that might in practice, if one were not already a large and powerful princely state and probably already a Kingdom rank Elector or Emperor. I think that passing the last HRE Imperial reform raises your government level to Empire from Kingdom. Idle question is there some other empire that an already empire level Emperor could form (in addition to being the HRE Empire) ? I tend to doubt it. Although, if he went far enough overseas, it just might be possible. Are there any other entities in Europe (or near it) that are automaticly empire level status when formed? Possibly Russian , Scandinavian, or Middle Eastern. But they probably have cultural or religious requirements in addition to geographic requirements.
I would presume that a kingdom rank Elector who became Emperor and then lost the emperorship would still be a kingdom rank Elector.
I think that an Elector that becomes Emperor is still an Elector, which make the job winning re election easier, such as Bohemia. How often does Austria become an Elector as well as emperor?

[Dray Prescot]

I have always wondered if the HRE can lose already enacted Imperial Reforms? I see no sign in the Wikis, etc that such is possible. That could make life in the HRE even more interesting (as in "May you live in interesting times").

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

I have always wondered if the HRE can lose already enacted Imperial Reforms? I see no sign in the Wikis, etc that such is possible. That could make life in the HRE even more interesting (as in "May you live in interesting times").

As a nation in the HRE you can make the Emperor repeal the last passed reform, it's under the last tab.

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

I would presume that a kingdom rank Elector who became Emperor and then lost the emperorship would still be a kingdom rank Elector.
I think that an Elector that becomes Emperor is still an Elector, which make the job winning re election easier, such as Bohemia. How often does Austria become an Elector as well as emperor?

You will still hold the title of elector as it is a seperate institution to the emperor. The only way for the status of elector to be repealed is through war.
1. Emperor decides he no longers finds you fit to be an elector and goes to war to remove the status from you.
2. War of Religion: Any elector state that isn't of the same religion as the HRE will have their status removed automaticly. If the war of religion dies out with the Peace of Westphalia then there is religious freedom in the empire and noone may lose their electoral status over religion.

On another note, if you are an elector and have achieved kingdom rank (Brandenburg gets kingdom when forming Prussia, remains in the HRE) and your elector status is then revoked you will fall back down to duchy

[Kaspa]

So under the latest patch does this all stand? I am playing as the Commonwealth and got elected emperor but i am already an empire and do not want to lose my empire rank. Although i do see 2 of the princes are kingdoms, Brandenburg and Bohemia

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Kaspa:

So under the latest patch does this all stand? I am playing as the Commonwealth and got elected emperor but i am already an empire and do not want to lose my empire rank. Although i do see 2 of the princes are kingdoms, Brandenburg and Bohemia

As long as you don't add your capital to the HRE you will not be a member of the HRE, so once you are no longer the emperor you should be back where you were before you were elected emperor.

[Raider Deci]

Interesting read.

I have my own plan with maybe becoming emperor with Sweden at some point (internally debating staying catholic or go protestant). I want to remove the iberian colonizers first though (its 1510 and england is mostly gone and have a foothold in portugal)