Make Spain's National Ideas different.

[Dray Prescot]

It would make things more interesting if Spain's National Ideas were somewhat differrent from Castle's/Aragon's/Portugal's National Ideas, then you would have to make a choice about forming Spain, which set of National Ideas would you want to have, your old ones or Spain's? Your inherent relations with the Pope and the Papal States could be different too.

[Kaikái]

Spain from my point of view and as a lover of history I is not well represented in the game , Spain was militarily a lot stronger than in the game , his thirds is one of the three best infantry in history, you should have an idea of ​​capacity combat infantry and fewer ideas of faith.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Spain from my point of view and as a lover of history I is not well represented in the game , Spain was militarily a lot stronger than in the game , his thirds is one of the three best infantry in history, you should have an idea of ​​capacity combat infantry and fewer ideas of faith.

As to the OP - mmm, Spain's ideas are nothing like Aragon's. They bare only a passing resemblance to Portugal. I would recommend looking at the ideas for each country. Aragon, which I love playing from time to time, is much more focused on light ships and dominating trade in the mediterranean with no focus on colonization or any of the other nice goodies that Spain gets with its NI/As.

Barely anything to add since Ultrix said the most. Portugals ideas btw are very centered around dominating trade while ex castille & aragon are not.


Castille is really strong with really good NIs, free PU on 2 countries where one is free of integration when creating Spain (which no other country has). rich provinces and easy acces to just about everything.





A bit offtopic....I think I wanna try Portugal sometime. They feel somewhat like an interesting underdog but can with aragons help crush their bigger neighbor and deny them colonies, and they can get a free ticket into india. Only problem is that I hate colonising myself.

[Kaikái]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Spain from my point of view and as a lover of history I is not well represented in the game , Spain was militarily a lot stronger than in the game , his thirds is one of the three best infantry in history, you should have an idea of ​​capacity combat infantry and fewer ideas of faith.

Eh, Spain gets +15% morale of Armies putting them second by 5% to France with Elan as well as +5% discipline. Find another nation other than say Brandenburg/Prussia, Sweden, France, Ottomans that is stronger than Spain within Europe.

There might be one or two but Spain *is* a top tier military power - at the very top.

Further, they have, in game terms, a very OP set of NI/As. They get missionary strenght and an extra missionary like being a monastic state specializing in religion, more papal influence than most monastic states, which is very powerful with Catholicism's Papal benefits, a free colonist like Russia, heavy ship combat ability, buffed trade power and when you put all of that together, Spain is a top tier nation all around for their ideas, military and non-military.

In fact, there's really not a single bad NI/A in their list.

With their advantages to trade, tarrifs, colonization and settling the New World, they easily build an income surpassing most of Europe without even having to conquer high development lands.

Spain is one of the most OP nations in the game.

As to "history," it's not a valid argument in EU4 as the devs do not accept historical realism as a part of their game design philosophy. Some examples on the topic, limited to 6 monts so it's not a hugmongous list, just for the lead dev ->

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?search/311292/&q=realism&o=date&c[node]=731+897+811+812+813+874+814+815+854+839+817+849&c[developer]=1


So buffing Spain militarily would basically make the the new BYB (big yellow blow), imo.

As to the OP - mmm, Spain's ideas are nothing like Aragon's. They bare only a passing resemblance to Portugal. I would recommend looking at the ideas for each country. Aragon, which I love playing from time to time, is much more focused on light ships and dominating trade in the mediterranean with no focus on colonization or any of the other nice goodies that Spain gets with its NI/As.

I understand what you mean , believed that EUIV was based more on the story. I eg my campaigns with other countries , never see strong Spain , he is dedicated to colonize and losing territories in their homeland. Perhaps the AI not control well Spain . I also believe that Portugal should not be a historical friend, they have to be enemies.
Sorry to be bad in English .

[Tayip]

if portugal was an enemy, castile/spain would crush portugal very quickly and then they would own most of america without a problem. basically what most players do with spain.

[Dux]

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Spain from my point of view and as a lover of history I is not well represented in the game , Spain was militarily a lot stronger than in the game , his thirds is one of the three best infantry in history, you should have an idea of ​​capacity combat infantry and fewer ideas of faith.

Spain was a joke militarily. Your avatar sells out you clearly are a Spaniard and you're simply campaigning for a boost to your own country.
To say Spain was a lot stronger than it is now is just laughable taking into account they always got their asses kicked by Portugal who barely had what could be called a professional army. Please.
Be happy they're as good as they are in the game.

[JungleTears]

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Spain from my point of view and as a lover of history I is not well represented in the game , Spain was militarily a lot stronger than in the game , his thirds is one of the three best infantry in history, you should have an idea of ​​capacity combat infantry and fewer ideas of faith.

Spain was a joke militarily. Your avatar sells out you clearly are a Spaniard and you're simply campaigning for a boost to your own country.
To say Spain was a lot stronger than it is now is just laughable taking into account they always got their asses kicked by Portugal who barely had what could be called a professional army. Please.
Be happy they're as good as they are in the game.

The Spanish Tercios were undefeated in every war until Battle of Rocroi in 1642 and were greatly feared as an invincible army.

Now i wont google that for you but you should read a little more history my friend.

Also they saved europe at the battle of lepanto. Porutgal?? Mh kay.

[Dux]

Originally posted by FraGG *T*R*Y*:

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

Spain was a joke militarily. Your avatar sells out you clearly are a Spaniard and you're simply campaigning for a boost to your own country.
To say Spain was a lot stronger than it is now is just laughable taking into account they always got their asses kicked by Portugal who barely had what could be called a professional army. Please.
Be happy they're as good as they are in the game.

The Spanish Tercios were undefeated in every war until Battle of Rocroi in 1642 and were greatly feared as an invincible army.

Now i wont google that for you but you should read a little more history my friend.

Thanks my friend but I'm fully aware of it. You may not be aware of the fact the Portuguese, the Austrians and pretty much everybody else in Europe had their own Tercio regiments at the time though, meaning they weren't Spanish exclusive army regiments. So to boost them you'd have to boost pretty much everybody else who adopted Tercios (or Terços - the Portuguse variant) as their primary armies. Funnily enough pretty much the only period of time Spain didn't attempt to invade Portugal was during the golden days of the Tercios, simply because the Portuguese King died and the country fell under a Personal Union with Spain. But alas! Don't despair, because during the war of Restoration they kicked out the mighty Spanish tercios out (undefeated eh?), nothing out of the ordinary though because the crappy Portuguese army was very well used to defeating the mighty Spanish Empire killer armies everyone glorifies so much.

[Dux]

They saved Europe in Lepanto? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Ottomans rebuilt and tripled their navy after the defeat, it has been pretty much proved the "victory" ended up being more of a defeat because Venice still lost Famagosta and was forced to reliquish all claims they had in Cyprus.
As the Grand Vizier Mehmed Sokullu put it after the war while arguing with a Venetian emissary:
"You come to see how we bear our misfortune. But I would have you know the difference between your loss and ours. In wresting Cyprus from you, we deprived you of an arm; in defeating our fleet, you have only shaved our beard. An arm when cut off cannot grow again; but a shorn beard will grow all the better for the razor." And it is exactly what happened.
As for Portugal we did beat the Ottomans plenty of times in naval battles as well, might want to learn your history.

In EUIV terms the whole Lepanto fiasco could be seen as the "Spanish" (quotation marks because it wasn't just the Spanish lols) navy destroying the Ottoman navy and the Ottomans gaining a province in the peace deal. Sure they lost their navy, and Venice/Catholic alliance lost the province. The Ottomans rebuilt their navy within months and the Catholics never recovered Cyprus, so who really won?

Typical Spanish "victory". That has always been their downfall, thinking themselves better than they really are. Does anyone here remember the Glorious/Invincible Armada, the greatest navy the world has ever seen? Someone please remind me how that ended. XD
Not to mention if you believe "Spain saved Europe" I don't even know what to say. Do you think the Ottomans were going to start a full scale war against entire Europe? They'd get smashed into tiny pieces by sheer number force even if we don't take into account quality.
No, the Ottoman objective was to seize the Venetian colonies on the Greek islands, in which they were succesful. So please do explain me - Spain saved who or what?

[JungleTears]

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

They saved Europe in Lepanto? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Ottomans rebuilt and tripled their navy after the defeat, it has been pretty much proved the "victory" ended up being more of a defeat because Venice still lost Famagosta and was forced to reliquish all claims they had in Cyprus.
As the Grand Vizier Mehmed Sokullu put it after the war while arguing with a Venetian emissary:
"You come to see how we bear our misfortune. But I would have you know the difference between your loss and ours. In wresting Cyprus from you, we deprived you of an arm; in defeating our fleet, you have only shaved our beard. An arm when cut off cannot grow again; but a shorn beard will grow all the better for the razor." And it is exactly what happened.
As for Portugal we did beat the Ottomans plenty of times in naval battles as well, might want to learn your history.

In EUIV terms the whole Lepanto fiasco could be seen as the "Spanish" (quotation marks because it wasn't just the Spanish lols) navy destroying the Ottoman navy and the Ottomans gaining a province in the peace deal. Sure they lost their navy, and Venice/Catholic alliance lost the province. The Ottomans rebuilt their navy within months and the Catholics never recovered Cyprus, so who really won?

Typical Spanish "victory". That has always been their downfall, thinking themselves better than they really are. Does anyone here remember the Glorious/Invincible Armada, the greatest navy the world has ever seen? Someone please remind me how that ended. XD
Not to mention if you believe "Spain saved Europe" I don't even know what to say. Do you think the Ottomans were going to start a full scale war against entire Europe? They'd get smashed into tiny pieces by sheer number force even if we don't take into account quality.
No, the Ottoman objective was to seize the Venetian colonies on the Greek islands, in which they were succesful. So please do explain me - Spain saved who or what?

They lost 20.000 men in that battle. It maybe was easy to replace the ships but not the experienced sailors and soldiers

It was also a huge morale victory for the christendom. Since the undefeatable ottomans have been crushed.

This Turkish defeat stopped Ottomans' expansion into the Mediterranean, thus maintaining western dominance, and confidence grew in the west that Turks, previously unstoppable, could be beaten

Spanish ships attacked the Anatolian coast, defeating larger Ottoman fleets at the Battle of Cape Celidonia and the Battle of Cape Corvo

After 1580, the discouraged Ottomans left the fleet to rot in the waters of the Golden Horn.

Yeah they gained a province but in the end they lost dominance over the sea. Who won now?

Just because you write alot and say HAHAHAHAHA or xD xD xD doesnt make youre arguments valid.

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

Thanks my friend but I'm fully aware of it. You may not be aware of the fact the Portuguese, the Austrians and pretty much everybody else in Europe had their own Tercio regiments at the time though, meaning they weren't Spanish exclusive army regiments. So to boost them you'd have to boost pretty much everybody else who adopted Tercios (or Terços - the Portuguse variant) as their primary armies.

Wrong. It is well known that at the battle of rocroi for example all the other tercios regiments fled the field.

Only the spanish tercios stood there and took charge after charge. In the negoitation they were treated as a fortress.

What about the siege of castelnuovo? Where 3500-4000 Spanish tercios faced 50.000 ottomans. Jannisaries too.

They refused to surrender even though the ottoman offered that to them and killed 20.000 ottomans while standing to the last man?

I could give you 100 other examples but you know history you say.

There was a saying in this time. Give me 100 spanish soldiers or 1000 of any other nation

Portuguese restauration war. You do realise that portugal was supported by england and france? Spain was at war with france at that time. Spain hat the netherlands too land that has to be defended.

After the restoration of the Stuart dynasty, it became possible for Portugal to compensate for the loss of limited French support by renewing its traditional alliance with England. This took the form of a dynastic marriage between Charles II and Afonso VI's sister, Catherine of Braganza, which assured Portugal of outside support in its conflict with Spain. It was largely due to the English alliance that peace with Spain became possible at war's end; Spain had been drained by the Thirty Years' War, and it had no stomach for further warfare with other European powers, especially a resurgent England.

And the spanish armada was never defeated... It was the weather that killed the armada in scotland and the northern seas. If you read history...

Spain was constantly at war with multiple major powers. And you say they get too much credit? Good for portugal that they could focus the army on one point.

now you can go haha hoho hihi hehe but i wont talk to you anymore because you dont know history.

[Dux]

Nice half-assed facts you got there. The traditional "I'll mention only what helps my argument and leave out the facts that help the other side huehuehue" strategy. Good one.
FIY that war lasted officially 40 years lmao. You're an idiot if you believe nothing else would have happened between both countries during said 40 years. The Portuguse got into their own little war too vs The Netherlands (whom btw unlike good ol' Spain actually managed to grab some of our land). We were also forced to participate in the 30 years war much thanks to Spain, so don't act like Spain was the only weakened participant of the war. As for the English support it came mainly in the form of money and supplies to help Portugal maintain the war effort, while Spain could afford to recruit entire regiments of Germand and Italian soldiers to fight for them. I can give you references if you'd like, from legitimate books written by non-Portuguese writers.

As for the "weather" -

"The Armada chose not to attack the English fleet at Plymouth, then failed to establish a temporary anchorage in the Solent, after one Spanish ship had been captured by Francis Drake in the English Channel. The Armada finally dropped anchor off Calais. While awaiting communications from the Duke of Parma's army the Armada was scattered by an English fireship attack. In the ensuing Battle of Gravelines the Spanish fleet was damaged and forced to abandon its rendezvous with Parma's army, who were blockaded in harbour by Dutch flyboats. The Armada managed to regroup and, driven by southwest winds, withdrew north, with the English fleet harrying it up the east coast of England. The commander ordered a return to Spain, but the Armada was disrupted during severe storms in the North Atlantic and a large number of the vessels were wrecked on the coasts of Scotland and Ireland. Of the initial 130 ships over a third failed to return. As Martin and Parker explain, "Philip II attempted to invade England, but his plans miscarried, partly because of his own mismanagement, and partly because the defensive efforts of the English and their Dutch allies prevailed.""

The great Spanish Armada was already fleeing when they got hit by the storms lmao.

Yeah better not reply more to me, as you're clueless of what you're talking about and cherry pick only the parts that support the point you're trying to make about Tercios being godlike.

[JungleTears]

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

Nice half-assed facts you got there. The traditional "I'll mention only what helps my argument and leave out the facts that help the other side out huehuehue" strategy. Good one.
FIY that war lasted officially 40 years lmao. You're an idiot if you believe nothing else would have happened between both countries during said 40 years. The Portuguse got into their own little war too vs The Netherlands (whom btw unlike good ol' Spain actually managed to grab some of our land). We were also forced to participate in the 30 years war much thanks to Spain, so don't act like Spain was the only weakened participant of the war. As for the English support it came mainly in the form of money and supplies to help Portugal maintain the war effort, while Spain could afford to recruit entire regiments of Germand and Italian soldiers to fight for them. I can give you references if you'd like, from legitimate books written by non-Portuguese writers.

As for the "weather" -

"The Armada chose not to attack the English fleet at Plymouth, then failed to establish a temporary anchorage in the Solent, after one Spanish ship had been captured by Francis Drake in the English Channel. The Armada finally dropped anchor off Calais. While awaiting communications from the Duke of Parma's army the Armada was scattered by an English fireship attack. In the ensuing Battle of Gravelines the Spanish fleet was damaged and forced to abandon its rendezvous with Parma's army, who were blockaded in harbour by Dutch flyboats. The Armada managed to regroup and, driven by southwest winds, withdrew north, with the English fleet harrying it up the east coast of England. The commander ordered a return to Spain, but the Armada was disrupted during severe storms in the North Atlantic and a large number of the vessels were wrecked on the coasts of Scotland and Ireland. Of the initial 130 ships over a third failed to return. As Martin and Parker explain, "Philip II attempted to invade England, but his plans miscarried, partly because of his own mismanagement, and partly because the defensive efforts of the English and their Dutch allies prevailed.""

The great Spanish Armada was already fleeing when they got hit by the storms lmao.

Yeah better not reply more to me, as you're clueless of what you're talking about and cherry pick only the parts that support the point you're trying to make about Tercios being godlike.

Youre a portuguese nationalist :> Im spanish myself but i never said something bad about portugal. Why should i? But you cannot say portugal put in the same resources in those wars. Because they didnt had.

Portugal fought the netherlands? Good. Its still a different case bordering those nations.

But what am i talking for? Any other sane person reading you and me discussing will see that you hate on spain because SPAINZORZ :>.

Have a nice day to portugal.

[Dux]

The Ottomans won clearly because the Spaniards were never able to gain a foothold in Ottoman controlled land, while the Ottomans on the other hand continued bullying Greek and other mediterranean costal provinces for hundred of years while expanding the size of their country.
As for the Lepanto defeat the official numbers amount to about 15K Ottomans (with 3.5Kish caputered) and 7.5K for the Holy League (they don't even mention Spain because it was clear they had heaps of help, wasn't a 1v1 battle) not counting with the defenders of Famagosta (who had been defeated before the Holy League even got there).

My problem with Spain is the fact they're never happy unless they get pictured as some sort of invincible force who only got defeated because everyone and everything was against them. They blame coalitions, luck, the weather and who knows what more. Their tercios were invincible, their armada unsinkable. Glory to good old Spain. I wonder why they lost most of the conflicts they were involved in and were never able to dominate little Portugal then, wasn't by lack of attempts that's for sure.

As for being a Portuguese Nationalist don't make me laugh. We are and were a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ country with an horrible army. Our navy was basically the only thing we could pride ourselves in, that and the fact we managed to do really good for being such a small country with less population that Constantinople (just the city) had. I don't try to make us seem better than we were and are.

[Dux]

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Is totally untrue what you say , perfectly know the story , you just feel envy and resentment , but the fact is that the thirds of Spaniards were the best and his soldiers the most skilled and hard at the time, the black legend invented the Spaniards were useless is totally false , recent studies confirm this. If I 'm Spanish , so I defend the truth of the peak of my pais.Portugal and other countries managed to beat Spain by evil kings and the continuing economic crisis, not because of the inability of their armies . Ignorance is fought reading.
Soz my English. Bye

Que?

[JungleTears]

Originally posted by Micael Fatia:

Originally posted by Kaikái:

Is totally untrue what you say , perfectly know the story , you just feel envy and resentment , but the fact is that the thirds of Spaniards were the best and his soldiers the most skilled and hard at the time, the black legend invented the Spaniards were useless is totally false , recent studies confirm this. If I 'm Spanish , so I defend the truth of the peak of my pais.Portugal and other countries managed to beat Spain by evil kings and the continuing economic crisis, not because of the inability of their armies . Ignorance is fought reading.
Soz my English. Bye

Que?

Pero que dices tioooo. Jajaja

chao <3

[Kaikái]

Ignoring the previous confused.
I do not say that Spain should have a national idea of combat capability of infantry or moral entire game , but maybe an event in which, if you conquer Naples , from 1500 to 1650 have a bonus of moral or something. What do you think ?