A question about crusades.

[Ten Year Old Squeaker]

So I'm playing the game as a Catholic nation (Austria). I assumed the Papacy and am now able to order a crusade against another nation. I have succeeded in breaking the Personal Union between Poland and Lithuania, and since I have expanded to border both, I would like to order a crusade against the fatter of the two (Lithuania).

Only the game blocks me. I get a message saying "We cannot order a crusade against fellow Christians, heretics or not, as tempting as it may be."

Did the makers of EUIV ever read about the Fourth Crusade? In 1204 the Papal States and Venice owed an army of mercenaries some several hundred thousand silver coins to compensate them for their services. To pay the mercenaries off, Pope Innocent III (innocent indeed ) and Doge Enrique Dandolo ordered a redirection of the crusade (originally meant to target Islamic caliphates) and ordered the army to march on the Eastern Orthodox holy city of Constantinople. The city was sacked, Byzantium was desposed of, and Latins controlled the region for several decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

So here is my question. If in history the Catholic church had no qualms against ordering the mass murder of fellow Christains and the seizure and theft of their assets, then why can't I as Austria do the same unto Lithuania?

[shoki]

1) the game starts 14444
2) The game-system only allows crusades against other religions.

My speculation is, that it would be to easy to conquer someone if crusader CB would work on everyone. But well feel free to post it better in the suggestions forum here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/euiv-suggestions.874/
Devs don't read (maybe they do sometimes), but they never answer here on the steam forums :)

[Ten Year Old Squeaker]

Originally posted by shoki:

1) the game starts 14444
2) The game-system only allows crusades against other religions. My speculation is, that it would be to easy to conquer someone if crusader CB would work on everyone.

It doesn't have to work on everyone, just heretics. That's all I'm asking.

[Kelldath]

Originally posted by Lyndon Baines Johnson:

Pope Innocent III and Doge Enrique Dandolo ordered a redirection of the crusade (originally meant to target Islamic caliphates) and ordered the army to march on the Eastern Orthodox holy city of Constantinople.

You said it yourself, historically the target of the crusade was an islamic caliphate, not Constantinople, they changed their goals later on, after the army was already raised, assembled and far from home.

[Ten Year Old Squeaker]

Originally posted by Kelldath:

Originally posted by Lyndon Baines Johnson:

Pope Innocent III and Doge Enrique Dandolo ordered a redirection of the crusade (originally meant to target Islamic caliphates) and ordered the army to march on the Eastern Orthodox holy city of Constantinople.

You said it yourself, historically the target of the crusade was an islamic caliphate, not Constantinople, they changed their goals later on, after the army was already raised, assembled and far from home.

But even then, shouldn't I be able to send a bogus crusade to the Ottomans and then redirect it to Lithuania?

[Kelldath]

Originally posted by Ten Year Old Hipster:

But even then, shouldn't I be able to send a bogus crusade to the Ottomans and then redirect it to Lithuania?

Sure, but then, for the same reason, any ennemy army would be allowed to enter your territory and conquer your provinces anytime.

[Brahir]

Originally posted by Ten Year Old Hipster:

Originally posted by Kelldath:

You said it yourself, historically the target of the crusade was an islamic caliphate, not Constantinople, they changed their goals later on, after the army was already raised, assembled and far from home.

But even then, shouldn't I be able to send a bogus crusade to the Ottomans and then redirect it to Lithuania?

You are talking about a very specific event in histoy and I am pretty sure that the Paradox Team has more knowledge of history than you, so why question if they know about the 4th crusade? If you ever play CK2, you can play with the Latin Empire, so YES, they are aware of that event.

Now, for the mechanic, it's just the way it works. Crusades are ment to be fought against other Religions. Can you even imagine, as Austria, call in a Crusade agains a 3 province Protestant Saxony? NO, then the same is done for Orthodox, Coptic, and any other Christians

[kesat]

a) The orthodox church never was the official target of any crusade. Just because crusaders pillage byzantium doesn't make that a "legitimate" crusade. Therefore you shouldn't be able to call for a crusade against the orthodox church. Valid targets would be historical heretics (e.g. cathar), heathens (e.g. muslims) and political enemies of the papal state.

b) Furthermore you should ask yourself, why there are any crusades in EU4, because the last crusade was right before the start of EU4. If history comparison is your justification there shouldn't be any crusades in EU4 ;)

c) You should take a look at CK2 if you want to go for crusades against heretics ;)

[Welcome to Idiocracy 2023]

Poland and Lithuania are both catholic nations while Byzantium is orthodox.

You know that after the big shism orthodox and catholics both called them each other as herectics?

Herectics are not fellow christians...

Maybe in modern times these usage of the term "herectic" is a bit silly but what i have wrote is how the big chiefs in catholicism and orthodoxy thought about each other in these time period...

Of course it was insane to start crusades against each other.
The only winner of this dumbness and fanatism against each other was the only true enemy of all christians - the Islam and of course the Ottoderps from Central Asia!

The game is working as intented - no crusades against other catholic nations - like Poland and Lithuania.


Not to forget that it was not a real crusade against Byzantium - most "crusaders" who pillaged them were greedy mercenarys.
They travelled home and Byzantium was in their way...

[Welcome to Idiocracy 2023]

Originally posted by kesat:

a) The orthodox church never was the official target of any crusade. Just because crusaders pillage byzantium doesn't make that a "legitimate" crusade. Therefore you shouldn't be able to call for a crusade against the orthodox church. Valid targets would be historical heretics (e.g. cathar), heathens (e.g. muslims) and political enemies of the papal state.

b) Furthermore you should ask yourself, why there are any crusades in EU4, because the last crusade was right before the start of EU4. If history comparison is your justification there shouldn't be any crusades in EU4 ;)

c) You should take a look at CK2 if you want to go for crusades against heretics ;)

You have forgotten the Baltic Crusade which succeeded.