Worried about EU5

[kampfturke]

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

I dislike the ever worsening predatory DLC practise of companies.
I find the DLCs for EU4 were borderline and am worried that it will get even worse for EU5.

Dear Paradox. I am not a piggy bank that you can keep milking. I literally buy less of your games, as I do not want to spend 100s every year on DLC. Plus the quality of the DLCs is getting worse.

So please release EU5 in a good state and please stop locking everything behind DLCs.

I hope the community is behind me, as if we keep letting companies milk us, we will keep getting gutted releases and overpriced DLCs and addons.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

You are in the minority. This has been Paradox's entire business model for the last 10 years, and for the most part it has been phenomenally successful. If the average person just didn't buy the games for these reasons, it would impact their bottom line and they would be encouraged to change their strategy. But their numbers have only gone up since introducing something closer to a games-as-a-service development strategy, so they have no reason to change.

[THE BAR]

I'm more worried about them smushing too many mechanics together from their other titles, ending up with another Imperator. EU5 looks like it's shaping up to be very... intricate.

[Azunai]

Remains to be seen how much DLC will be released gor EU5. CK3 is a somewhat recent Paradox game that didn't release that many expansions. But maybe it was simply less successful. don't know.

I don't mind spending a little money on DLC if the game is good. To me, that's no different than buying a new game. Except there aren't many new games i'm interested in lately.

[Immortalis]

Right now the game is available for $50; adding *every single piece* of additional content would cost $375.
That is 425 dollars, with zero discount / sale and including completely irrelevant content for the game like the E-book or the Music packs, which together cost $47,50.
Which means the complete game actually costs $380.

And even being generous and admitting that is the only price that you could ever pay (it's not as you can get it for big discounts, which happen quite often here on steam, and find cheaper keys for a much lower price), that is still a price that has to be divided for the 12 years the game was developed.
Which hardly makes it so you need to spend "100s every year on DLC".
Matter of fact, buyng absolutely everything at full price comes in at $35 a year, roughly 3 bucks a month.

And again, that's without considering that if you have no interest in some of the content that is offered, you are completely free to skip it altogether and your game won't be affected in the slightest.


So no, Paradox's DLC policy is not terrible.
It's quite good in terms of the actual cost of the "full" game and it's even better if you consider that the development of the game itself is carried out throughout more than a decade by listening to the playerbase and implementing changes that we want.

[hannibal_pjv]

The point that 10+ year old game gets new content packs tells that Paradox doctrines work rather well. And based on hours that I have put hoi4… the price even without discounts is good! I have muchnless hours with EU4… so cost/hour is less Stellaris for me. But EU4 fands definitely has get theirs money worth of entertainment!

So when EU5 comes out. Try the base game as see if it is for you. It will definitely get many dlc! But you newer have to buy them all! Just chose and pick what you like and if you find out that you don`t avtually spend so much time in the game… stop buying more!
If the spark lights up again later. You most likely. An buy many expansions at discount!
Paradox games are lifestyle games where you spend a lot of time. If not. Maybe chose something else.

[Dante_Deepdarkness]

I am worried too, but not due to the DLC.
I'm more worried about EU5 as a game, considering how Paradox have been working for the last years (mostly CK3 and Victoria 3, but not to forget how was I:R at release), no hopes for EU5. Time will tell if my worries are real or just the trust lost due to their recent bad decisions.

[kampfturke]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

Right now the game is available for $50; adding *every single piece* of additional content would cost $375.
That is 425 dollars, with zero discount / sale and including completely irrelevant content for the game like the E-book or the Music packs, which together cost $47,50.
Which means the complete game actually costs $380.

And even being generous and admitting that is the only price that you could ever pay (it's not as you can get it for big discounts, which happen quite often here on steam, and find cheaper keys for a much lower price), that is still a price that has to be divided for the 12 years the game was developed.
Which hardly makes it so you need to spend "100s every year on DLC".
Matter of fact, buyng absolutely everything at full price comes in at $35 a year, roughly 3 bucks a month.

And again, that's without considering that if you have no interest in some of the content that is offered, you are completely free to skip it altogether and your game won't be affected in the slightest.


So no, Paradox's DLC policy is not terrible.
It's quite good in terms of the actual cost of the "full" game and it's even better if you consider that the development of the game itself is carried out throughout more than a decade by listening to the playerbase and implementing changes that we want.

If you own more than 1 Paradox game it gets crazy.
And as I said, I am worried the DLCs and prices will get more oppressive.
See WH3 for an example (yes different company, but similar model)

There have been a few bad DLCs and if you skip a DLC on their games you literally get a nerf. So you are paying for power. It feels bad to get punished for not spending money.

And your "they need money for development" is a poor example as BG3 has released multiple massive patches and the game cost 50-60 at release.
FREE massive patches!
When did we last get a free big patch from Paradox?

[kampfturke]

Originally posted by hannibal_pjv:

The point that 10+ year old game gets new content packs tells that Paradox doctrines work rather well. And based on hours that I have put hoi4… the price even without discounts is good! I have muchnless hours with EU4… so cost/hour is less Stellaris for me. But EU4 fands definitely has get theirs money worth of entertainment!

So when EU5 comes out. Try the base game as see if it is for you. It will definitely get many dlc! But you newer have to buy them all! Just chose and pick what you like and if you find out that you don`t avtually spend so much time in the game… stop buying more!
If the spark lights up again later. You most likely. An buy many expansions at discount!
Paradox games are lifestyle games where you spend a lot of time. If not. Maybe chose something else.

"Paradox games are lifestyle games where you spend a lot of time. If not. Maybe chose something else."

How many people have said this about a game/movie/series, only for it to then get cancalled as too many people followed that advice.

Im want EU5 to succeed and this is just a warning, as greed can destroy a company.

[Fatty Slonker]

Originally posted by hannibal_pjv:

The point that 10+ year old game gets new content packs tells that Paradox doctrines work rather well. And based on hours that I have put hoi4… the price even without discounts is good! I have muchnless hours with EU4… so cost/hour is less Stellaris for me. But EU4 fands definitely has get theirs money worth of entertainment!

So when EU5 comes out. Try the base game as see if it is for you. It will definitely get many dlc! But you newer have to buy them all! Just chose and pick what you like and if you find out that you don`t avtually spend so much time in the game… stop buying more!
If the spark lights up again later. You most likely. An buy many expansions at discount!
Paradox games are lifestyle games where you spend a lot of time. If not. Maybe chose something else.

Maybe if they made their mechanics more engaging in their modern games (looking at you CK3 and Vicky3) then they would excel in maintaining quality (like they did with CK2, Stellaris, EU4) but their modern attitude in increasingly hostile towards players.

[cayenne_spicy]

It's not greed. It's a simple case of "if you want a good game that will have good support and continued development and longevity for over 10 years, that isn't free". Wages need to be paid, overhead costs need to be paid, etc. It's not free to them so it's not free to you. It's the player that expects something for nothing who is being greedy. You stop being greedy.

[Immortalis]

Originally posted by kampfturke:

And your "they need money for development" is a poor example as BG3 has released multiple massive patches and the game cost 50-60 at release.
FREE massive patches!
When did we last get a free big patch from Paradox?

Every *single* time *any* Paradox games receives a DLC, it is *always* accompanied by a free big patch; and almost always by a series of updates, hotfixes and minor patches in the days and weeks immediately after.

Apart from that, comparing apples and oranges doesn't produce any result.
Per SteamDB, the all time peak of EU4 has been 48k players; Baldur's Gate 3's peak has been 875k.
If you can't see a reason why the two games might have different marketing strategy, well... I'm afraid that's on you...

[joiss90]

Originally posted by cayenne_spicy:

It's not greed. It's a simple case of "if you want a good game that will have good support and continued development and longevity for over 10 years, that isn't free". Wages need to be paid, overhead costs need to be paid, etc. It's not free to them so it's not free to you. It's the player that expects something for nothing who is being greedy. You stop being greedy.

Or just enjoy niche indie games like Dominions. Where Dominions 5 was released on 27 Nov, 2017 and the last update was on July 25, 2023 with 0 DLC. So clearly it is possible to do.

Obviously not going to happen for EU5. Though I do dislike the DLC model not because of the cost but because it hurts the game. Just look at how much the game was changed from adding Developing and Estates into the base game (I own those DLC and I still found it a bit scummy ripping DLC features out of the DLC while continuing to sell the DLC instead of just adding the entire DLC to the base game)

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by cayenne_spicy:

It's not greed. It's a simple case of "if you want a good game that will have good support and continued development and longevity for over 10 years, that isn't free". Wages need to be paid, overhead costs need to be paid, etc. It's not free to them so it's not free to you. It's the player that expects something for nothing who is being greedy. You stop being greedy.

Total agreement, cayenne_spicy. I've said the same thing myself many times.

[kampfturke]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by cayenne_spicy:

It's not greed. It's a simple case of "if you want a good game that will have good support and continued development and longevity for over 10 years, that isn't free". Wages need to be paid, overhead costs need to be paid, etc. It's not free to them so it's not free to you. It's the player that expects something for nothing who is being greedy. You stop being greedy.

Total agreement, cayenne_spicy. I've said the same thing myself many times.

Yes it is the players fault that EU4 costs over 300 euros with all features. They should just pay that and shut up, right?

You guys are insane and the reason these insane prices exist.
There is a reason I didn't buy Victoria 3, IR and HOI4. This is just insane.

[ThorXC60]

Originally posted by kampfturke:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Total agreement, cayenne_spicy. I've said the same thing myself many times.

Yes it is the players fault that EU4 costs over 300 euros with all features. They should just pay that and shut up, right?

You guys are insane and the reason these insane prices exist.
There is a reason I didn't buy Victoria 3, IR and HOI4. This is just insane.

Why shouldn't I spend 300 or 400 euros on a game that I have enjoyed playing for more than 10 years and that is constantly being improved and expanded? I would also pay significantly more for it.