Dissolving HRE

[Wolf]

Does the AE immediately disappear when the HRE is dissolved? Or does it just tick down?

Didn´t know that it could be such a pain in the ass trying to form Germany as Brandenburg.

[edd]

Future AE decreases by 50%. It does not implement on AE that you have previously. You can increase your improve relation modifier to decrease AE further by time. As an example, -1.8/year is the base AE decrease. And if you have 100 prestige it gives 50% improve relations modifier which makes AE decrease -2.7/year.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by edd:

Future AE decreases by 50%. It does not implement on AE that you have previously. You can increase your improve relation modifier to decrease AE further by time.

Right. And a better Improve Relations modifier is one of the many reasons Diplomatic is my favorite idea group.

Originally posted by Wolf:

Didn´t know that it could be such a pain in the ass trying to form Germany as Brandenburg.

If you don't dismantle early on, forming Germany is slow--but that's historical. Brandenburg's union with Prussia didn't happen until 1618. After that, they sloooooowly annexed more imperial territory. The end of the HRE in 1806 sped things up, and Germany finally formed in 1871.

In game, though, you want to do it centuries faster. Make dismantling the Empire your number one priority. Expand some to increase your power and then ally everyone and anyone you need to take the Empire out. Because rivalries are unpredictable, it's impossible to give a set strategy for this. You'll have to evaluate your game and decide which electors to ally and who you must fight. If everything lines up correctly, you can do it within a decade or two.

Forming Germany is easier as either Austria or the Teutonic Order, though--their updated mission trees help a lot. Austria is also much stronger than Brandenburg, and the Teutonic Order can become so very quickly.

[Triple G]

Also AE is only an issue, when a coalition forms, and this coalition would actually attack, which means they would need to get a stronger army than Your alliance has.

Originally posted by Marquoz:

The end of the HRE in 1806 sped things up, and Germany finally formed in 1871.

Yes - this 1848 thing didn´t last long. Would have been the most advanced constitution by that time, but the nobility was slightly against it, so mainly Prussia and Austria crushed it.

And yes - it was basically Napoleons achievement that there is Germany, while a certain Bismarck guy said that the big questions of the time aren´t solved by majority vote, or speeches, but by iron and blood. So the Prussians defeated Denmark, Austria and France to solve who owns what, and who will be the new emperor...

So as many times in history, a nation wouldn´t magically be formed, but instead the borders are enforced by some power hungry and bloodthirsty individuals - who then also enforce their vision of it onto the people. Alternatively nations are formed because people have fear because there are other power hungry and bloodthirsty individuals out there. Probably because humanity is very intelligent and civilized. Imho "forming" Germany was a big mistake - Germans can´t handle this and tend to become a bit megalomaniacal. As two world wars have shown. Gone are the times, when it was described in 1845 as: “The German people are not a people of action... We are the wise women of world history, the great ideologists who teach the nations philosophy and poetry and art and, in short, in all things that do not require you to get up from your chair; we also conquer the world, but not with swords, but with doctrines and poems.” And nowadays they have fears that "their culture" which is described as completely different from then - is in danger because of immigration, while many migrated to France, Swiss, the USA, Australia, wherever, after that 1848 revolution. Only the idiots stayed here...

[Lasagna]

even with just eating the +50% AE modifier and not dismantling at all you can form Germany hundreds of years early compared to real history, and that is without fighting a Europe Wide coalition war. As already mention in this thread the Brandenburg-Prussia Union happened in 1618, I usually stop playing my campaigns by the late 1500s or early 1600s because I am the undisputed great power and have pretty borders (in this case would be a Germany that owns the entire German culture group + Denmark and Bohemia + some vassals, and probably some colonies in Congo & South Africa)

[RCMidas]

Something fun to do as Prussia, with the Domination DLC, is to focus on getting your mission reward that allows you to remove AE buildup by promoting a culture. Then you simply stack some modifiers for promoting culture, and quickly promote and demote the same one over and over whenever you need to wipe out a bunch of accumulated AE. Sure, the locals will be upset by this, but you're Prussia. Rebels mean nothing except more Army Tradition.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by edd:

Future AE decreases by 50%. It does not implement on AE that you have previously. You can increase your improve relation modifier to decrease AE further by time.

Right. And a better Improve Relations modifier is one of the many reasons Diplomatic is my favorite idea group.

Originally posted by Wolf:

Didn´t know that it could be such a pain in the ass trying to form Germany as Brandenburg.

If you don't dismantle early on, forming Germany is slow--but that's historical. Brandenburg's union with Prussia didn't happen until 1618. After that, they sloooooowly annexed more imperial territory. The end of the HRE in 1806 sped things up, and Germany finally formed in 1871.

In game, though, you want to do it centuries faster. Make dismantling the Empire your number one priority. Expand some to increase your power and then ally everyone and anyone you need to take the Empire out. Because rivalries are unpredictable, it's impossible to give a set strategy for this. You'll have to evaluate your game and decide which electors to ally and who you must fight. If everything lines up correctly, you can do it within a decade or two.

Forming Germany is easier as either Austria or the Teutonic Order, though--their updated mission trees help a lot. Austria is also much stronger than Brandenburg, and the Teutonic Order can become so very quickly.

I once formed Germany in 2019 as the Teutonic Order but I thought I´ll give it another try as a different nation. I was just curious because I saw videos from people having Germany empire borders in the early 1500s which is just wild.

It´s true, one of the most powerful if not the most powerful nation of the continent not only in economic but also militarily. It´s building a nation while most others are already built.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Also AE is only an issue, when a coalition forms, and this coalition would actually attack, which means they would need to get a stronger army than Your alliance has.

Originally posted by Marquoz:

The end of the HRE in 1806 sped things up, and Germany finally formed in 1871.

Yes - this 1848 thing didn´t last long. Would have been the most advanced constitution by that time, but the nobility was slightly against it, so mainly Prussia and Austria crushed it.

And yes - it was basically Napoleons achievement that there is Germany, while a certain Bismarck guy said that the big questions of the time aren´t solved by majority vote, or speeches, but by iron and blood. So the Prussians defeated Denmark, Austria and France to solve who owns what, and who will be the new emperor...

So as many times in history, a nation wouldn´t magically be formed, but instead the borders are enforced by some power hungry and bloodthirsty individuals - who then also enforce their vision of it onto the people. Alternatively nations are formed because people have fear because there are other power hungry and bloodthirsty individuals out there. Probably because humanity is very intelligent and civilized. Imho "forming" Germany was a big mistake - Germans can´t handle this and tend to become a bit megalomaniacal. As two world wars have shown. Gone are the times, when it was described in 1845 as: “The German people are not a people of action... We are the wise women of world history, the great ideologists who teach the nations philosophy and poetry and art and, in short, in all things that do not require you to get up from your chair; we also conquer the world, but not with swords, but with doctrines and poems.” And nowadays they have fears that "their culture" which is described as completely different from then - is in danger because of immigration, while many migrated to France, Swiss, the USA, Australia, wherever, after that 1848 revolution. Only the idiots stayed here...

Interestingly, Germany was the only dominant power in Europe that didn´t rely on colonies and their slaves. Just being busy uniting their own people. Imperialism wasn´t really a thing because it wouldn´t last.
It is good that 1848 failed. Democracy and Republic don´t work in Germany. It only brought the nation and its people down. It may work for other nations but not for Germans.
Napoleon didn´t create Germany, he also didn´t creaty modern day Italy. The defeat of Prussia just lead to the reformation of the army by Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. which led finally to the defeat of Napoleon.

Humanity is neither intelligent nor civilized. The masses always need strong rulers. There are only a few mighty people who define their century or their age they´re living in.

1871 to 1914 was the last glorious time for Germany. But there were too many enemies inside that hated the nation, its people so much.

I don´t really know why we became that political. I just asked a single question... no reason to be jealous about German people. You seem to have a lot of hate. And I don´t know what you mean with "megalomaniacal" and the two world wars. Maybe you didn´t unterstand a few things about Germany.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Wolf:

Maybe you didn´t unterstand a few things about Germany.

Or maybe i am German...

Also i wasn´t being political - i was talking about history. Combined with some irony. I could go on and address some things You said there, which i disagree with, but i wouldn´t, as then it would be about other things - and it should mainly be about talking about the game, which we probably both enjoy.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Imho "forming" Germany was a big mistake - Germans can´t handle this and tend to become a bit megalomaniacal. As two world wars have shown.

Ironic that you would cite this to reinforce your point - since both such world wars were started entirely by an Austrian with German support, not by the Germans themselves.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Ironic that you would cite this to reinforce your point - since both such world wars were started entirely by an Austrian with German support, not by the Germans themselves.

Yes - Germany was formed as the small German solution, which excludes Austria. The great German solution would have included it. Like certain nationalists don´t distinct between Germans or Austrians, as they´re both the German people for them. Probably because they both speak German. But usually You don´t get any further answers, if it´s about culture, or the purpose of nationalism.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Ironic that you would cite this to reinforce your point - since both such world wars were started entirely by an Austrian with German support, not by the Germans themselves.

Yes - Germany was formed as the small German solution, which excludes Austria. The great German solution would have included it. Like certain nationalists don´t distinct between Germans or Austrians, as they´re both the German people for them. Probably because they both speak German. But usually You don´t get any further answers, if it´s about culture, or the purpose of nationalism.

Warum sprechen wir dann nicht Deutsch miteinander? Ich beziehe mich auf die obere Antwort.

Österreicher sind natürlich auch Deutsche. Das deutsche Selbstverständnis Österreichs schwand nach dem Ende des letzten großen Krieges, der Propaganda sei Dank. Ich frage mich ja, wer fast tausend Jahre lang die Kaiser gestellt hat im Heiligen Römischen Reich DEUTSCHER Nation.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Wolf:

Warum sprechen wir dann nicht Deutsch miteinander? Ich beziehe mich auf die obere Antwort.

Österreicher sind natürlich auch Deutsche. Das deutsche Selbstverständnis Österreichs schwand nach dem Ende des letzten großen Krieges, der Propaganda sei Dank. Ich frage mich ja, wer fast tausend Jahre lang die Kaiser gestellt hat im Heiligen Römischen Reich DEUTSCHER Nation.

Da ging´s aber nicht um Loyalität einer Nation oder eines Staates gegenüber, sondern den jeweiligen Häusern - oder dem Ort, wo man wohnt. Und in der Hälfe der Zeit gab´s nichtmal eine einheitliche Sprache. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass sich die Leute eher auf das eigene Leben konzentirert haben, weil ja auch jeder seine Rolle hatte - und Niemand ist groß duch die Gegend gereist von den normalen Leuten. Da hört die Welt eben an der Dorfgrenze auf - ist bei wenigen ja heute noch so. Und im Endefekt ist Nationalität nichts anderes als ein bürokratischer Akt, es geht dabei darum welche Gerichte und Gesetze zuständig sind, und welchen Pass man hat. Das war im Mittelalter eher nicht so - und den Zusatz "deutscher Nation" gab es ja auch nur die Hälfte der Zeit. Man kann das schlecht vergleichen, weil es ja eher ein loser Staatenbund war. Einen Nationalstaat gab es ja dann erst später, weil man neidisch auf die Nachbarn war - und gegen Napoleon mit einem einheitlichen Frankreich nicht viel machen konnte. Alle anderen könnten ja egal sein, wenn da sowieso deutsche Adelshäuser auf dem Thron sitzen. Ich persönlich halte von diesen ganzen künstlichen Konstrukten wie Nationalität, Kultur, oder Staat nicht so viel, weil ich dafür zu rational bin - aber als Spiel macht es Spaß.

Und wir schreiben hier nicht auf deutsch, weil das ein englischer Thread ist, bei dem es um was ganz anderes ging.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by Wolf:

Warum sprechen wir dann nicht Deutsch miteinander? Ich beziehe mich auf die obere Antwort.

Österreicher sind natürlich auch Deutsche. Das deutsche Selbstverständnis Österreichs schwand nach dem Ende des letzten großen Krieges, der Propaganda sei Dank. Ich frage mich ja, wer fast tausend Jahre lang die Kaiser gestellt hat im Heiligen Römischen Reich DEUTSCHER Nation.

Da ging´s aber nicht um Loyalität einer Nation oder eines Staates gegenüber, sondern den jeweiligen Häusern - oder dem Ort, wo man wohnt. Und in der Hälfe der Zeit gab´s nichtmal eine einheitliche Sprache. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass sich die Leute eher auf das eigene Leben konzentirert haben, weil ja auch jeder seine Rolle hatte - und Niemand ist groß duch die Gegend gereist von den normalen Leuten. Da hört die Welt eben an der Dorfgrenze auf - ist bei wenigen ja heute noch so. Und im Endefekt ist Nationalität nichts anderes als ein bürokratischer Akt, es geht dabei darum welche Gerichte und Gesetze zuständig sind, und welchen Pass man hat. Das war im Mittelalter eher nicht so - und den Zusatz "deutscher Nation" gab es ja auch nur die Hälfte der Zeit. Man kann das schlecht vergleichen, weil es ja eher ein loser Staatenbund war. Einen Nationalstaat gab es ja dann erst später, weil man neidisch auf die Nachbarn war - und gegen Napoleon mit einem einheitlichen Frankreich nicht viel machen konnte. Alle anderen könnten ja egal sein, wenn da sowieso deutsche Adelshäuser auf dem Thron sitzen. Ich persönlich halte von diesen ganzen künstlichen Konstrukten wie Nationalität, Kultur, oder Staat nicht so viel, weil ich dafür zu rational bin - aber als Spiel macht es Spaß.

Und wir schreiben hier nicht auf deutsch, weil das ein englischer Thread ist, bei dem es um was ganz anderes ging.

Das ist generell ein uraltes Problem in Deutschland. Aber ähnlich zerteilt geht es auch in anderen Ländern zu, denke man nur an die USA und ihre 50 Staaten. Man machts aber nicht besser, wenn man weiter spaltet statt eint.

Nationalität, Kultur und Staat als Konstrukte anzusehen, erinnert mich an die bunten Gestalten, die selbiges von Geschlechtern sagen. Das ist nicht rational, sondern indoktriniert. Sicherlich ist nicht alles glatt gelaufen und man hat viel Schindluder in Deutschland getrieben, unsere Geschichte geschrieben, die wir hätten schreiben müssen. aber man kann Jahrhunderte, wenn nicht Jahrtausende organisch entwickelte Kulturen nicht mit bürokratischen Konstrukten gleichsetzen.