-20% diplo annex cost policy

[gia]

how does that work? do i have to have it on BEFORE sending the diplomat to annex (the calculations are done at the beginning then freeze), at any time while annexing (calcs are done every month), or right before finishing the annexation (at about 80% so that the extra 20% brings it to 100%)

in the same vein I hear diplo rep speeded annexation, and i got a diplo rep policy I could turn on, or will that only drain my diplo too much? (1 to have the policy and more because I have more rep and speed up only means will use more points per month not create points out of thin air)

i have 6 big vassals I want to annex at the same time, if possible. so 10 years of 12 points per year is just 120 cost for nearly unlimited diplo saved :P, but not sure how and when to turn it on, same for diplo reputation.

[MuffinsAndPie]

What does each country cost to annex before the discount? You may end up with inescapable diplo point debt over the months of annexation, making it move at a snail's pace.

[gia]

idk maybe 12k total, so long as no point is wasted i see no issue i got no use for diplo

[Kelldath]

If you want to increase the speed of annexation, you'll want the diplomatic reputation all along.
As for the diplo anexation cost policy, I didn't check last time I used it, but the diplo anex ideas reduce the total cost, thus giving you a huge increase in the anexation % when you take them, I'd assume the policy does the same (since you lock them for at least 10 years, there's no way to abuse it anyways).

If you really plan to anex 6 vassals together though, you might not want the diplomatic reputation, as 2 vassals together can already easily bring you to a -12 DIP per month, which is already hard to keep up.

[gia]

so it works at the end, and i could wait until the very last to be able to have every point of diplo possible duing annexation (?), although i think the policy is admin so it doesnr matter nvm, then whats the use of diplo rep policy though, it does cost diplo, and while it makes your progress pipe bigger it would do so while shrinking your pool of points, slowing you down

[Kelldath]

The only case it would slow you down is if your total amount of diplo points goes negative, at which point the policy cost of 1 DIP per month will slow down a little bit the amount you can spend in the anexation.

In all the other cases you will anex faster, 1 point faster per month, at the cost of 2 dip.

[Romløk]

As it happens, I just activated the -20% policy this very night. The total DIP needed for my Golden Horde annexation immediately went from the 700s to the 500s. So to confirm/clarify:
* It is an ADM policy
* It *does* affect annexations that have already started
* It immediately reduces the amount of DIP needed to finish annexation
* It does not alter the DIP points already spent toward annexation

[gia]

ok found the following that applies best if you wanna annex several vassals at the same time

* have a big stack of diplo power, the annexation drains from your current MP, not your monthly income
* if you have no MP left the annexation pauses so you get nothing of worth but stuck diplomats
* admin efficiency reduces annex cost too! so getting another level of adm tech can help tons
* 60% adm efficiency, 25% from influence ideas, and 20% from the policy can give you max reduction (which I read from the wiki is 87.5%). They reduce the final cost, so you dont have to start with max reduction, just get it by the very end.
* diplo rep increases the "pipe" youll be draining mp with, since you are draning for multiple vassals, you dont need dip rep at all (maybe if you get a malus) all in all that dip rep policy is not worth it at all unless you ABSOLUTELY need it to progress the annexation (you got a huge malus). Would be better if dip rep worked as "free" points you got monthly towards annexation, if it worked like that then it would be an investment of points to get more points back, and actually useful.
* the "first" vassal (no idea which is first) drains first from your pool, followed by the second vassal and so on, so having multiple annexations does nothing if your pool of MP cant handle it, if it cant then only this first vassal will finish annexation as it will be the only one draining MP (and leaving it empty), and only then, the second will start, then the third and so on.

[neofutur]

in my experience the 25 % diplo annex idea is not working, the first screen, before annexing, tells you it will cost X points , including the discount, but then when you annex its Y points, not including the discount.

edit : i m speaking of the influence idea "integrated elites" giving 25% on diplo annex, dunno if the policy work.

[gia]

On this particular game it is useless though as I cant get PUs and the rest of diplo options are not being done peacefully anyway, I suppose I should play austria, but again, unless I got a very big malus to rep I dont think it is worth it at all to pay 1 diplo monthly to get 1 rep, it just doesnt pay itself, gettign an advisor would be much better (PUs maybe, then it does pay itself I guess).

now getting diplo rep for admin or military points is ok I guess, as you are basically trading one point for the other

Originally posted by neofutur:

in my experience the 25 % diplo annex idea is not working, the first screen, before annexing, tells you it will cost X points , including the discount, but then when you annex its Y points, not including the discount.

edit : i m speaking of the influence idea "integrated elites" giving 25% on diplo annex, dunno if the policy work.

savoy devlopment level:
18+26+37+23+22+31+12+18+20+12+24+18+26+36+22+31+25+22+26+37+31+41+21+40+21+
49+14+20+27+15+27+16+27+33+40+35+30+8+14+20+21+20+20+14
=1090

game states I need 4194 points, i have 26 adm tech, im at 2.3% progress and I got 97 points in (so the number 4194 is correct)

devel * cost per devel * modifiers (adm tech, adm tech, influence)

expected: 1090*8*(1-0.2-0.2-0.25)=3052 so not at all, they use capped arithmetic on every % calc except here, figures

possible modifiers:
adm+adm+inf = 0.35
adm*adm*inf = 0.48
(adm+adm) * inf = 0.45
adm+adm, no inf = 0.6 (influence doesnt work)
adm*adm, no inf = 0.64
(adm*adm) + inf = 0.39

4194 / (1090*8) = 0.4809633027522936

so im leaning towards multiplicative and some rounding, and influence is working, it just isnt as strong as expected (still strong)

now the wiki says the maximum is 87.5 reduction, but i dont see how you can ever hit that number unless they used arithmetic %s

if all the modifiers are multiplicative the best modifier you could get as austria is 0.29376, far from 0.125

maybe adm3 or the policy dont use multiplication to make it possible

[Zeth]

Influence and the policy stacks additively with eachother and multiplicative with admin efficiency.

Not sure how NIs factor in, but i suspect they will stack additively with Influence and policy and then multiplicative with admin efficiency.

I also suspect that diplo annexation currently does not work as intended since the estimated cost you get on the diplomacy screen is lower than the actual cost indicating that admin efficiency probably should stack additively as well allowing any country to reach the cap.

[gia]

got adm3 and now it is 3283 cost

(adm+adm+adm)*inf = 0.3
adm*adm*adm*inf = 0.384

3283 is 0.3764..., so i think its just plain multiplication so far (as you said)

adm*adm*adm*(inf+p) = 0.2816 that would be a non austrian max reduction

austria would still be far from the cap even if it is additive with inf and p, at 0.2048

also the rounding is weird, because 0.384 is very far from 0.3764, and no matter the rounding schemes I tried I couldnt come up with it. I got a lower number once so it is within possibilty I guess, math fail from the devs, doing several lossy operations instead of a single one at the end.

I hope the policy is additive I might be able to annex them all right by the end of the game :3, now my leaders die... the game has started giving me lose diplo or admin "your choice" events so that can start to happen more often too :(

[Zeth]

Originally posted by gia:

got adm3 and now it is 3283 cost

(adm+adm+adm)*inf = 0.3
adm*adm*adm*inf = 0.384

3283 is 0.3764..., so i think its just plain multiplication so far (as you said)

adm*adm*adm*(inf+p) = 0.2816 that would be a non austrian max reduction

austria would still be far from the cap even if it is additive with inf and p, at 0.2048

also the rounding is weird, because 0.384 is very far from 0.3764, and no matter the rounding schemes I tried I couldnt come up with it. I got a lower number once so it is within possibilty I guess, math fail from the devs, doing several lossy operations instead of a single one at the end.

Admin efficiency is just one number. So the cost will be 22% without NIs.

[gia]

but it doesnt compute, as i said if they were one number id be a 0.3 of total cost, yet im at 0.376 which is closer to "separate number, multiplicative" which is 0.384

when I had adm2 the number also was closer to "separate, multiplicative"

[Zeth]

Not sure what you mean.

I checked the cost in game and adm*(Inf+p) is an accurate formula.

E.g. (1-0,6)*(1-0,25-0,2)=0,22 for maximum reduction.

[Zeth]

You have to actually send the diplomat to find out the correct cost by looking at the annexation progress btw. You can't look at the cost at the diplomacy screen since that will give you a wrong number.