Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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Skraoo 30 ENE 2022 a las 2:51 p. m.
Best strat for BYZ
Whats the general consensus on the best strat to win the first war.
Última edición por Skraoo; 30 ENE 2022 a las 2:54 p. m.
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Mostrando 1-15 de 22 comentarios
Marquoz 30 ENE 2022 a las 2:54 p. m. 
I'll just copy/paste my standard Byzantium advice here:

I've made Byzantium into the #1 Great Power in every patch, and 1.3X is the easiest it's ever been because of the new curry favors system. Here's some general advice

1) Allies: You need friends. Either form an alliance with a bunch of little states (especially Albania, for Skanderbeg) or at least one major power (Poland, Austria, Hungary, and Venice are the best targets) plus minors. A major power or two + random minors is my prefered approach and has a higher success rate. Before the game even starts, you'll want to see what major powers have rivaled the Ottomans. If one or two of the four I listed did so, you're good. If none of them did, restart. Then set your attitude towards the Ottomans to "threatened", hire a diplomatic rep adviser, set your attitute towards the nations you want to ally to "friendly," use your diplomats to improve relations, royal marry, give gifts, give military access, do whatever it takes.

2) Force limit: build up to it before war on both land and sea. Some people use loans and go beyond it, but I never do. Destroy your fort in Morea to save money. Set Athens to "supportive" so their army will assist yours. Make sure your army will allow allies to stack with it and move it to Athens to start.

3) Timing: if your alliance is really strong, the Ottomans will never attack you because they know they will lose. That's fine! Take out Epirus and any other targets of opportunity while you wait to accumulate favors. The Knights, Venice's island possessions, and Genoa are all possibilities depending on what else is going on. Meanwhile, use "curry favors" to build up enough favors with your major power allies to attack. Once you do, declare war when the Ottomans are fighting someone else and take all your cores + some cash in the first war.

If your alliance isn't overwhelming, the Ottomans will attack you. That's also fine! Use terrain, the straits, and your superior understanding of combat (when compared to the AI) to win battles, take control of the Bosporus, isolate Europe, and take your cores.

Either way, it's pretty easy. Sometimes everything goes wrong and you have to restart, but I win as Byzantium at least 3/4's of the time. The key is alliances.
Skraoo 30 ENE 2022 a las 2:57 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Marquoz:
I'll just copy/paste my standard Byzantium advice here:

I've made Byzantium into the #1 Great Power in every patch, and 1.3X is the easiest it's ever been because of the new curry favors system. Here's some general advice

1) Allies: You need friends. Either form an alliance with a bunch of little states (especially Albania, for Skanderbeg) or at least one major power (Poland, Austria, Hungary, and Venice are the best targets) plus minors. A major power or two + random minors is my prefered approach and has a higher success rate. Before the game even starts, you'll want to see what major powers have rivaled the Ottomans. If one or two of the four I listed did so, you're good. If none of them did, restart. Then set your attitude towards the Ottomans to "threatened", hire a diplomatic rep adviser, set your attitute towards the nations you want to ally to "friendly," use your diplomats to improve relations, royal marry, give gifts, give military access, do whatever it takes.

2) Force limit: build up to it before war on both land and sea. Some people use loans and go beyond it, but I never do. Destroy your fort in Morea to save money. Set Athens to "supportive" so their army will assist yours. Make sure your army will allow allies to stack with it and move it to Athens to start.

3) Timing: if your alliance is really strong, the Ottomans will never attack you because they know they will lose. That's fine! Take out Epirus and any other targets of opportunity while you wait to accumulate favors. The Knights, Venice's island possessions, and Genoa are all possibilities depending on what else is going on. Meanwhile, use "curry favors" to build up enough favors with your major power allies to attack. Once you do, declare war when the Ottomans are fighting someone else and take all your cores + some cash in the first war.

If your alliance isn't overwhelming, the Ottomans will attack you. That's also fine! Use terrain, the straits, and your superior understanding of combat (when compared to the AI) to win battles, take control of the Bosporus, isolate Europe, and take your cores.

Either way, it's pretty easy. Sometimes everything goes wrong and you have to restart, but I win as Byzantium at least 3/4's of the time. The key is alliances.
I like that strat although I wonder if you should attack the Ottomans first.
Marquoz 30 ENE 2022 a las 3:04 p. m. 
Of course. Here's a screenshot from my last ironman Byzantium game, one where I attacked the Ottomans. Poland and Austria were my allies, and my alliance was so strong the Ottomans would never have attacked me. You have to fight them. If you're strong, declare the war yourself once you have enough favors.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2504498653
Skraoo 30 ENE 2022 a las 3:12 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Marquoz:
Of course. Here's a screenshot from my last ironman Byzantium game, one where I attacked the Ottomans. Poland and Austria were my allies, and my alliance was so strong the Ottomans would never have attacked me. You have to fight them. If you're strong, declare the war yourself once you have enough favors.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2504498653
thanks, I think I'll try this strat out.
MasterYi 30 ENE 2022 a las 3:22 p. m. 
The Ottomans usually do not maintain their forts in Selanik and Koaceli, declare war on the 1st day of the month to make sure you have enough time to make it to the province before the month tick.

Make sure your navy carrying your 2k troops arrive in the Sea of Marmara on the 1st day of the month, once your navy is in the sea tile, the Ottomans will start maintaining their forts.

Have 200 cannons in your navy, naval barrage Selanik and Koaceli and order an assault, if you did not make it before the month tick. Assaulting forts a lot less manpower now in the new patch.

Alternatively, roll back to 1.30.6 and give yourself your cores back using the Custom Nation Exploit.
Ares 30 ENE 2022 a las 4:59 p. m. 
The best strat to win the first war, is to rush 2 sieges on the first of the Month, with Albania and the knights called in with the promise of land.

You can do this with hireing out 2 infantry to the Ottomans on day one, and place it on one of the Anatolian forts, with current patch they often turn on the fort in Ankara, So one of the other 2. Hire 2 merc stacks and recruit the rest so that you have 18 troops with full morale ariveing on the 1-2 of the month in Athens, have you merc stacks set to have allies attach. Then attack with the wargoal being Selanik. In pervious patches it was a good chance that the Ottomans would place both their armies on Constantinople, and that is what your hopeing for, but i find that unlikely to happen now, if it does, then turn on the defensive edict in constantinople, and siege his capital and Gelibolu, you want 3 siege pip general on Gelibolu, and Whatever your Emperor and heir has as stats on the Capitol, with the rest of the army you carpet siege Greece and Bulgaria, take care of any unit he builds there. The 2 infantry in Anatolia should rush for Gelibolu after siegeing down the fort it was placed on. Once the carpet siege is down, pour most of the troops on Gelibolu to deter any attack there. Siege down both the forts, have all allies attached, and attack the Ottoman blob on Constantinople, have them all arive on the same date, and sally forth on that date. You should win, and then stackwipe them on Edirne and Gelibolu. War's won.

Thats the fastest and most efficent way cost wise and time wise, to win against Ottomans. But as i said, it's less likely that they both stay on Constantinople now, so instead you need to stackwipe them seperately, after the 2 sieges has been won, Selanik and one in anatolia, and you see one of his army go to constantinople, and the other heading for Albania, just attack the one in constantinople with SKanderberg attached, and stackwipe it, regain troops and morale, and stackwipe the other army, most likely on Selanik, as he usually wont stay on Albania once he see's you coming or from attacking the other army. With both gone, you need to carpet siege and siege down Gelibolu and his capital. Your entire fleet should stay right outside constantinople the whole time btw. You can then end the war, or try to lure one army over to stackwipe it, problem with that is that your allies will most likely block the straight, but you'll have enough war score to end it there.

The advanced part, is where i attack Epirus on 11th, take the core, humiliate, force convert, war reps and money. Attack Ottomans, build up spynetwork in Ragusa, and Ottomans. Do the same, preferly with stackwipeing his entire army. Peace out with all core, Bulgarian coastline, albanian land and all of Macedonia. Set Ottomans as Rivals, and attack Ragusa the month after. Then your troops attack from constantinople and Gelibolu, rushing his 2 forts that are now turned of. And reunite on his new capital. I have also buildt more galley's and i barrage his capital. With all that down, i take all his cash and war reps, and peace out after just a few months of war. And the truce timer has been shortened. Ragusa you can just white peace.

If i can't stackwipe his armies close to peacing out, in the first war. i mass most of my army on Constantinople, and only 2 or so troops in Gelibolu, and then attack, he then often has some troops on Kocaeli, but you'll be able to defeat it. Take both forts, that have no troops in them and his capital.

By doing that, you are able to take max amount of land in the first war, and max amount of cash in the second, since he isent co-beligerent, taking land in the second would cost to much AE. And you block him from Bulgaria, which when your bulgarian rebells spawn, you want them to siege down all of bulgaria, so that he will release bulgaria, and you attack it as soon as he does.

That is the strongest Byz start that i know of.
Ares 30 ENE 2022 a las 5:15 p. m. 
Última edición por Ares; 30 ENE 2022 a las 5:27 p. m.
Ares 30 ENE 2022 a las 7:37 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por El Fabuloso:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_26Ydh26k&t=302s
Not optimal. It's on a diffrent patch granted, but he's useing more troops than needed, and therefore getting more heavily in debt, he has also 1 less fort than my guide, therefore less warscore, and im not sitting around to generate the extra warscore. I also start the war sooner, altho i build ships in southern greece once all my troops are recruited.

Nothing against Budgetmonk, i have watched he's guides in the past, and learned from them, but i have also improved on them.
I would like to see him do a Byz guide for current patch. As i find it hard to get both Ottoman stacks to sit on Constantinople, which is the best outcome, and the reason it is the best is cause you then get 3 forts + he's capitol and carpet siege Greece/Bulgaria, and then stackwipe him, you can do this with 20 troops of your own, + vassal and allies attached. You then peace out, because he has no troops, and so much is sieged, the warscore really goes up, and when you attack Ragusa the Month after, dragging him in again, then he doesnt have troops, so by occupying 2 forts that are ungarisoned, the warscore will be way higher cause of the lack of troops, and therefor what the AI calculates. When you then take all his cash and war reps, there is also a good chance that Mamluks declears on him, and that will break him.
RCMidas 30 ENE 2022 a las 8:53 p. m. 
If you're willing to gamble a bit with what the AI does, you can always transfer all occupied provinces to an ally until they have as close to 100% warscore as you can get - the AI will nearly always separate peace then, whilst you can immediately start resieging everything (remember to mothball their forts for a single siege tick, though you can't with Edirne) and then even repeat the process if you like.

Depending on your allies, you can effectively break the Ottomans in a single war by having multiple near-100% peace deals performed against them. Sometimes your allies will even return your cores for you or release other nations instead of just taking money and a province or two.

Sure, it extends the war by a year or two (depending on the number of your allies) and you are unlikely to get exactly what you want, but it absolutely wrecks them. Plus you then, as Ares said, declare on Ragusa and further obliterate them.
Ares 30 ENE 2022 a las 10:37 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por RCMidas:
If you're willing to gamble a bit with what the AI does, you can always transfer all occupied provinces to an ally until they have as close to 100% warscore as you can get - the AI will nearly always separate peace then, whilst you can immediately start resieging everything (remember to mothball their forts for a single siege tick, though you can't with Edirne) and then even repeat the process if you like.

Depending on your allies, you can effectively break the Ottomans in a single war by having multiple near-100% peace deals performed against them. Sometimes your allies will even return your cores for you or release other nations instead of just taking money and a province or two.

Sure, it extends the war by a year or two (depending on the number of your allies) and you are unlikely to get exactly what you want, but it absolutely wrecks them. Plus you then, as Ares said, declare on Ragusa and further obliterate them.

That would require to siege them down completly, which will put you way further into debt, or you will need bigger allies. Which will take longer time to aquire, specially if you need favors to call them in. Anyway their no longer really a threat after the Ragusa war, they will only have Anatolia left once Bulgaria breaks away.

But to see the difference, i did try this, only with Albania and the Knights, and i got lucky, Both Ottoman stacks went on Constantinople, they even had Ramazan as ally, so i was able to almost siege them down all the way, except Genoa decleared on them and snagged some provinces, still i got Ramazan easily out of the war, and was sitting on 99%, i transferred it all to Albania, setting my troops ready on all the forts and some provinces. But Albania refused to peace out, even when the call for peace came, many months went and then big rebel stacks spawned, 60 loans into debt. I don't know why Albania never peaced out but the best action would have been to peace them out after the big stackwipe.
I don't know if this is something they have included in this patch, or if you need 100% should be doable with 99% as this is something that i've used to do with France and Timmy. But for it to be worth it, you can't go heavily into debt. My guide you end up with no loans and surplus cash, specially if they both go on constantinople since then the war will be fast.
Última edición por Ares; 30 ENE 2022 a las 10:40 p. m.
Damedius 30 ENE 2022 a las 11:20 p. m. 
The only thing I would add is don't annex your vassals before getting Diplomatic ideas and getting the +2 Diplo Rep idea. You are really dependent on your allies early and having -3 Diplo Rep can mean them not answering the call to arms.

One of my first attempts as Byzantium ended when my allies refused to honor our alliance because I had low Diplo Rep after annexing Athens.
Ares 31 ENE 2022 a las 8:43 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Damedius:
The only thing I would add is don't annex your vassals before getting Diplomatic ideas and getting the +2 Diplo Rep idea. You are really dependent on your allies early and having -3 Diplo Rep can mean them not answering the call to arms.

One of my first attempts as Byzantium ended when my allies refused to honor our alliance because I had low Diplo Rep after annexing Athens.

You can balance it out with favors, increase trust and have them prepare for war. But my ideas in the run above, is Admin, influence and diplo. I only annexed Athens early before the Influence ideas was in place. What's slowing me down in that game is AE, even tho im doing reconquests where i can. Aragon being one example of it, they only had 2-3 provinces, so i vassalised them and got reconquest on all that iberian land. This also makes me wonder if i should have taken espionage ideas or religious instead, to lower the AE in western Europe.
Mechenyi 31 ENE 2022 a las 10:16 a. m. 
I'm a fan of the "attack him while his armies are in anatolia and block the Dardanelles" strategy, but I'm not sure how well that works now that the AI is delete-crazy over forts.
RCMidas 31 ENE 2022 a las 11:13 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ares:
This also makes me wonder if i should have taken espionage ideas or religious instead, to lower the AE in western Europe.
If it's coalitions you're worried about, just keep declaring and revoking guarantees on all the nations you possibly can and don't intend to conquer in the next decade. The two-way truce from the revoked guarantee will prevent them from joining or remaining part of any coalition against you. They'll still join defensive wars if you attack an ally, subject to the usual caveats, of course.

Espionage is still not really worth it next to the others, and Religious I find to be better in the late game when you are actively trying to convert everything around you and can happily stack plenty of other modifiers to make this less of a chore.
Última edición por RCMidas; 31 ENE 2022 a las 11:14 a. m.
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Publicado el: 30 ENE 2022 a las 2:51 p. m.
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