Losing Development via Concentrate as a Mandala?

[Server Jester]

Im Brunei rn and Brunei starts with Mandala System. I annexed Sulu who I fed Maguinidao and Madyas. I wanted to Concentrate Development but it said the state would lose 5 dev
I thought Mandalas can Concentrate without the state losing Dev? It says so in the gov description.
If this is intended then why stay a Mandala? Would an Iqta be a better choice as Brunei?

[grotaclas]

Concentrate development was changed since its introduction. In the original version you lost some dev (and no dev with mandala), but in the current version, the dev gets converted into monarch points(with the dev cost of the provinces which you concentrate), some of which are lost and then these monarch points buy development in your capital(with the dev cost of the capital). Mandala prevents this loss of monarch points, but you still gain less development if your capital has a higher dev cost than the provinces which you concentrate.

But the mandala description is still accurate, because it doesn't say that you don't lose dev

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by grotaclas:

Concentrate development was changed since its introduction. In the original version you lost some dev (and no dev with mandala), but in the current version, the dev gets converted into monarch points(with the dev cost of the provinces which you concentrate), some of which are lost and then these monarch points buy development in your capital(with the dev cost of the capital). Mandala prevents this loss of monarch points, but you still gain less development if your capital has a higher dev cost than the provinces which you concentrate.

But the mandala description is still accurate, because it doesn't say that you don't lose dev

So the Mandala System just makes it so Concentrate is more efficient than any other gov
Now im wondering whether I should swap to Iqta or the Plutocracy you have when you start as Malacca
Or stay a Mandala

[RCMidas]

Yeah, the change was kinda necessary to nerf the system, since Con.Dev was powerful enough as was without some nations being able to literally ignore the only downside. If you don't intend to integrate any vassals within the next millennium however, I'd recommend staying a mandala to absorb their dev for yourself every so often. When they inevitably turn on you, simply conquer them as per usual and pick up a new set of vassals to exploit.

You won't be in the running for a world conquest with that type of government anyway, so rebellious vassals aren't a big deal.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Yeah, the change was kinda necessary to nerf the system, since Con.Dev was powerful enough as was without some nations being able to literally ignore the only downside. If you don't intend to integrate any vassals within the next millennium however, I'd recommend staying a mandala to absorb their dev for yourself every so often. When they inevitably turn on you, simply conquer them as per usual and pick up a new set of vassals to exploit.

You won't be in the running for a world conquest with that type of government anyway, so rebellious vassals aren't a big deal.

The only two vassals ive had so far were the ones I get from missions, Sulu and Maynila, I already annexed them after feeding them most of the Phillipines (Only one left is one that starts with P over at the top, couldnt touch them cause theyre a trib of Ming plus they have no allies)
Is there any notable good vassal choices in the Malayan area? Im thinking maybe Indrapura and Palembang once I start moving into Sumatra

[RCMidas]

In the immediate area, Brunei is always nice but unwieldy due to their size, but Palembang will let you avoid more of your coast being raided by them. Further afield, Blambagan or Bali will do much the same for you with less hassle than Sunda or Majapahit. In the Spice Islands, absolutely grab Tidore or Ternate - wipe out the other afterwards, and the survivor will immediately begin colonising the area, saving you the time and effort as well as protecting against (usually) Spain or Portugal doing the same.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

In the immediate area, Brunei is always nice but unwieldy due to their size, but Palembang will let you avoid more of your coast being raided by them. Further afield, Blambagan or Bali will do much the same for you with less hassle than Sunda or Majapahit. In the Spice Islands, absolutely grab Tidore or Ternate - wipe out the other afterwards, and the survivor will immediately begin colonising the area, saving you the time and effort as well as protecting against (usually) Spain or Portugal doing the same.

Got it, didnt know Ternate and Tidore could get Colonists for free
Ill try and get a vassal in Java (Bali was eaten by Blambagan and Blambagan is a trib of Maja, so maybe ill snag Bali's province and release them) and Palembang as a vassal once I finish the colony in Sumatra
Along with Ternate ofc

[RCMidas]

Via their missions they get up to four colonies for free by event if the other one is destroyed, each colony able to start up after the previous one is finished, and then get a permanent mission reward colonist thereafter (plus -50% native uprising, meaning they can go for Trading Policy for that extra -50% and guarantee a production boost from extra native assimilation).

They can expand for you very nicely indeed if you enable them.

[Server Jester]

I tried Malacca several times, failed due to manpower and me being stupid
I try Brunei, formed Malaya first try

[RCMidas]

Nice. Another 20 or 30 hours, maybe less depending on how quickly you memorise, and this should become practically routine for you, even with the smaller local nations. Have fun!

[Server Jester]

Also i am now experiencing native annoyance that im seeing in the forums
Aboriginals keep attacking Malayan Australia

[Marquoz]

Use enforce peace to take leadership of the war. Eat all provinces of the attacking aboriginals and watch your colonial nation's power skyrocket. You'll get stronger faster than at any point in EU4 history.

[bri]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Use enforce peace to take leadership of the war. Eat all provinces of the attacking aboriginals and watch your colonial nation's power skyrocket. You'll get stronger faster than at any point in EU4 history.

This. My first 1.33 game my English CN owned all of Australia by 1590, a mere 190-ish years before any settlers arrived irl. And it could easily have been a good 15-20 years earlier if I'd been trying.

[RCMidas]

Australia is thankfully really good for this, seeing as how they can't keep migrating ever further inland like in the Americas. You'll have the place locked down in just a few wars, and can eat up New Zealand (and the Pacific for yourself) thereafter in no time.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Australia is thankfully really good for this, seeing as how they can't keep migrating ever further inland like in the Americas. You'll have the place locked down in just a few wars, and can eat up New Zealand (and the Pacific for yourself) thereafter in no time.

Yea figured
Though I plan on colonizing Cali and maybe hit Mexico and SA if I can afterwards
Also I made Aussieland Self Governing, was that the right choice or should I have gone Private Enterprise

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Use enforce peace to take leadership of the war. Eat all provinces of the attacking aboriginals and watch your colonial nation's power skyrocket. You'll get stronger faster than at any point in EU4 history.

Thats what ive been doin