How to deteriorate relations between two countries ?

[Omar Bingo]

Title.
I've just started the game, and I don't know how to do that.
Thanks!

[zacharyb]

Well if you get the espionage idea group you can sow discontent, though I have never used the espionage idea group before. If you are trying to break an alliance, declare war on one of the countries allies, and then separate peace the said country and make them break their alliance with the other country.

[Aaronthelemon]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Espionage and its Rumormongering:Sabotage reputation. Not Sow discontent,That adds national unrest of +3

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Aarontheshirt:

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Espionage and its Rumormongering:Sabotage reputation. Not Sow discontent,That adds national unrest of +3

Ah, well like I said i've never used the espionage group.

[Omar Bingo]

Thanks a lot ! I'll look into it!

[Dandy]

Send insults if you want to lower relations on purpose, if you are trying to get them to declare war then it gives them a valid cause but they probably wont use it.

[Omar Bingo]

Originally posted by Shameful Display:

Send insults if you want to lower relations on purpose, if you are trying to get them to declare war then it gives them a valid cause but they probably wont use it.

I meant between two other countries that I don't control. :)

[Aaronthelemon]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Ah, well like I said i've never used the espionage group.

I've never used it either people always told me it was terrible, but sow discontent & Supporting rebels potentionally adds +7 unrest to a bunch of provinces which honestly sounds amazing for exploding countrys

[Rabob]

Originally posted by Aarontheshirt:

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Ah, well like I said i've never used the espionage group.

I've never used it either people always told me it was terrible, but sow discontent & Supporting rebels potentionally adds +7 unrest to a bunch of provinces which honestly sounds amazing for exploding countrys

If your diplomat gets discovered, you cannot do it for a while again. And supporting rebels is very expensive if you want to add that as well. So all in all it just not very reliable/good compared to directly going to war :( It might be nice to break up PU's, but again I think there are better ways.

[Aaronthelemon]

Originally posted by Rabob:

Well I mean if you're western you're you can usually easily afford it by 1600-1650 and it seems a great way to stop other big Europeans powers from taking any provinces

[Halcyon]

Unfortunately you can't directly control the relations between nations you don't control, but there are ways to do it. The key is focusing on what you CAN control, wars. Nations that break alliances, dishonor alliances, make separate peaces, etc will lose big points with the allies they've left behind. If you can break up an alliance through the 'annul treaties' peace option, so much the better, but that doesn't actually decrease relations, just prohibits any treaty for the duration. You can force religion on a nation of a different religious group, often causing its old allies to abandon it due to the relations malus for being a heretic, especially if they share borders. A protestant nation can force religion on a catholic nation to pull it away from the orbit of a big catholic ally like castille, for example.

Another sneaky method, though not usually recommended due to losing territory, is selling provinces. Many nations have provinces that they consider 'mandatory' such as Danzig for Poland. If you take Danzig as Brandenburg, then sell it to Pomerania for example, you can make the polish more likely to murder the pomeranians for Danzig. If you conquer contested provinces like Albania, you can sell them to one of the sides that has a core on it to encourage war between the two (venice and the ottomans in this example). You can also use this method to make two nations border each other that didn't previously, increasing the 'border tensions' malus and potentially given them a 'neighboring heretic/heathen' malus as well.

[Omar Bingo]

Originally posted by ҉ Halberdman:

Unfortunately you can't directly control the relations between nations you don't control, but there are ways to do it. The key is focusing on what you CAN control, wars. Nations that break alliances, dishonor alliances, make separate peaces, etc will lose big points with the allies they've left behind. If you can break up an alliance through the 'annul treaties' peace option, so much the better, but that doesn't actually decrease relations, just prohibits any treaty for the duration. You can force religion on a nation of a different religious group, often causing its old allies to abandon it due to the relations malus for being a heretic, especially if they share borders. A protestant nation can force religion on a catholic nation to pull it away from the orbit of a big catholic ally like castille, for example.

Another sneaky method, though not usually recommended due to losing territory, is selling provinces. Many nations have provinces that they consider 'mandatory' such as Danzig for Poland. If you take Danzig as Brandenburg, then sell it to Pomerania for example, you can make the polish more likely to murder the pomeranians for Danzig. If you conquer contested provinces like Albania, you can sell them to one of the sides that has a core on it to encourage war between the two (venice and the ottomans in this example). You can also use this method to make two nations border each other that didn't previously, increasing the 'border tensions' malus and potentially given them a 'neighboring heretic/heathen' malus as well.

Wow thank you ! I'll try to remember that ! I've already used the "border tension" one, and it is indeed very useful !

[Rabob]

Also to add to that.
- You could give a lot of provinces to a war ally to overextend them and/or get them in a coalition (for instance if you want to destroy Poland). If you are Brandenburt this is something you want to do :)
- Giving provinces in the HRE can also give the unlawful territory which decays veeeeery slowly.

You can do this as you please since you wont get AE for these schemes :p Only costs some diplo

[Omar Bingo]

Once again thank you for you complete answers !

[Aaronthelemon]

Originally posted by Rabob:

You can do this as you please since you wont get AE for these schemes :p Only costs some diplo

Wouldnt that cost massive diplo

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Aarontheshirt:

Originally posted by Rabob:

You can do this as you please since you wont get AE for these schemes :p Only costs some diplo

Wouldnt that cost massive diplo

Not really, as long as you made sure you fed them provinces with a lot of development.