How are the Ottomans so much more powerful than me?

[volbound1700]

I am one tech level ahead of them and have Quality Idea tree and yet they still easily win battles against me. Fortunately, the war is rather useless to me, in fact Ottos winning might help me but it is still curious how the game can be this broken. I mop the floor with everyone else but Otto armies half my size beat me in battle easily. How are you supposed to win them? In most games, you usually win when you have way more troops than the opponent.

[Liam]

Cannons do not have any impact on battles until Tech 13, unless they somehow ended up on the frontline. Until then, they are only used for sieges.

[Narrowmind]

Автор сообщения: I HAD CHAIN LIGHTNING

Автор сообщения: Ratlegion

Depends on what you consider the beginning. He didn't say he was using anyone with greater cav ability. He also isn't using combat width.

using a nation with a calv bonus is irrelevant. calv are flat out supreme in the early game. doesnt matter who.
Isnt using combat width? wtf does that even mean, everybody uses combat width.

Disagree, but you believe whatever you want. I'm fine with it. Good day to you.

[RCMidas]

He's not using full-size armies. His combat width is not fully utilised. At his tech level he should have at least 21 infantry in each army before using cavalry at all, especially if the armies he's facing are smaller than his. The flanking bonus of cavalry is irrelevant when you already outnumber your foe nearly 2:1.

EDIT: And whilst I normally hate to be that guy, please lose the "L" for cav. Calvary is not mounted horsemen, it's an outdoors depiction of the crucifixion (or apparently a cavalcade of emotional anguish, which I didn't know).

[Dmformom]

Автор сообщения: I HAD CHAIN LIGHTNING

Автор сообщения: Ratlegion

Depends on what you consider the beginning. He didn't say he was using anyone with greater cav ability. He also isn't using combat width.

using a nation with a calv bonus is irrelevant. calv are flat out supreme in the early game. doesnt matter who.
Isnt using combat width? wtf does that even mean, everybody uses combat width.

His armies aren't at combat width

[bri]

Автор сообщения: Dmformom

Автор сообщения: I HAD CHAIN LIGHTNING

using a nation with a calv bonus is irrelevant. calv are flat out supreme in the early game. doesnt matter who.
Isnt using combat width? wtf does that even mean, everybody uses combat width.

His armies aren't at combat width

Doesn't really matter if his enemy armies aren't either. As long as you have inf+cav greater than the enemy's you want cav for flanking. Honestly in most parts of the world combat width=manpower & ducat waste even without any artillery...

[Dmformom]

Автор сообщения: bri

Автор сообщения: Dmformom

His armies aren't at combat width

Doesn't really matter if his enemy armies aren't either. As long as you have inf+cav greater than the enemy's you want cav for flanking. Honestly in most parts of the world combat width=manpower & ducat waste even without any artillery...

Ottomans though, unless they're weak they probably have 25k stacks or higher

[dataseer21]

Ottomans are indeed one of the strongest nations in the game. This is even if you don't think there are hidden modifiers. There is the 33 percent siege ability. There is lucky nation which is like 20 things. There is superior unit pips. There is the special Janissary unit that gets like shock and fire damage recieved bonuses. There is seemingly that the Ai gets some kind of cash bonus that I don't remember right now what it was. It involved the AI sucking so there is something dealing with income that they don't need to worry about. There is the 5 percent discipline. There is the superior unit pips of anatolia. There is the fact that if memory serves there have a completely broken government system that gives them maxed out rulers along with lucky giving them +1 in all abilities. Also there is the fact that the AI doesn't go on conquering sprees so they might just sit there drilling all day which is what you have to do to get to 100 percent.

They are stacked. They are the strongest nation in the game in my opinion with a possible exception of what I have seen austria do and spain recently.

[bri]

Автор сообщения: Dmformom

Автор сообщения: bri

Doesn't really matter if his enemy armies aren't either. As long as you have inf+cav greater than the enemy's you want cav for flanking. Honestly in most parts of the world combat width=manpower & ducat waste even without any artillery...

Ottomans though, unless they're weak they probably have 25k stacks or higher

Otto armies half my size beat me in battle easily.

...

As I said, when you have more than the opponent then adding more so you have combat width s just asking for attrition. Not to mention the whole thing with units not directly engaged still take morale damage and other such stuff that encourages micro-managing your armies rather than just chucking the lot in to start the fight...

[Marquoz]

Автор сообщения: dataseer21

Ottomans are indeed one of the strongest nations in the game. This is even if you don't think there are hidden modifiers. There is the 33 percent siege ability. There is lucky nation which is like 20 things. There is superior unit pips. There is the special Janissary unit that gets like shock and fire damage recieved bonuses. There is seemingly that the Ai gets some kind of cash bonus that I don't remember right now what it was. It involved the AI sucking so there is something dealing with income that they don't need to worry about. There is the 5 percent discipline. There is the superior unit pips of anatolia. There is the fact that if memory serves there have a completely broken government system that gives them maxed out rulers along with lucky giving them +1 in all abilities. Also there is the fact that the AI doesn't go on conquering sprees so they might just sit there drilling all day which is what you have to do to get to 100 percent.

They are stacked. They are the strongest nation in the game in my opinion with a possible exception of what I have seen austria do and spain recently.

The Ottomans aren't even close to being the strongest single player nation. The god-tier countries are:

--Oirat into Yuan keeping horde mechanics
--Timurids into Mughals
--Austria with the vassal swarm
--England with the immediate French personal union

Every other nation is far weaker than those four, and that includes the Ottomans. They're just another strong starting nation that experienced players smack down at will. For example, here's a screenshot of my 1.33 Mughals run. I'm about to crush the Ottomans in a war for my vassal Syria's cores:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2774441098

They're utterly doomed. If I kept on with this campaign (unlikely; it's far too easy and boring now), a few more wars would wipe the Ottomans off the map.

Inexperienced and unskilled players fear AI Ottomans and overrate their abilities. But they're not impressive and need to be massively buffed, not nerfed. To address some of your points:

--Janissaries cost 10 military mana per regiment and are a total noob trap. Hire generals and spend points on tech instead.
--The Ottoman government form gives above-average rulers but is pathetic compared to the incredible power of hordes or the Mughal Diwan.
--Ottoman unit pips start strong but get weak. If you're not skilled enough to beat them early, beat them late.
--The "lucky" nation bonuses are given to more than just the Ottomans. If you can't deal with lucky nations, don't play ironman and turn them off.
--You don't have to "drill all day" to get to 100% army professionalism. I never take military ideas and spend those points on generals instead. For the cost of completing one military idea group, you can hire enough generals to get almost 50% professionalism.

[Spaceracer]

Автор сообщения: Marquoz

Автор сообщения: dataseer21

Ottomans are indeed one of the strongest nations in the game. This is even if you don't think there are hidden modifiers. There is the 33 percent siege ability. There is lucky nation which is like 20 things. There is superior unit pips. There is the special Janissary unit that gets like shock and fire damage recieved bonuses. There is seemingly that the Ai gets some kind of cash bonus that I don't remember right now what it was. It involved the AI sucking so there is something dealing with income that they don't need to worry about. There is the 5 percent discipline. There is the superior unit pips of anatolia. There is the fact that if memory serves there have a completely broken government system that gives them maxed out rulers along with lucky giving them +1 in all abilities. Also there is the fact that the AI doesn't go on conquering sprees so they might just sit there drilling all day which is what you have to do to get to 100 percent.

They are stacked. They are the strongest nation in the game in my opinion with a possible exception of what I have seen austria do and spain recently.

The Ottomans aren't even close to being the strongest single player nation. The god-tier countries are:

--Oirat into Yuan keeping horde mechanics
--Timurids into Mughals
--Austria with the vassal swarm
--England with the immediate French personal union

Every other nation is far weaker than those four, and that includes the Ottomans. They're just another strong starting nation that experienced players smack down at will. For example, here's a screenshot of my 1.33 Mughals run. I'm about to crush the Ottomans in a war for my vassal Syria's cores:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2774441098

They're utterly doomed. If I kept on with this campaign (unlikely; it's far too easy and boring now), a few more wars would wipe the Ottomans off the map.

Inexperienced and unskilled players fear AI Ottomans and overrate their abilities. But they're not impressive and need to be massively buffed, not nerfed. To address some of your points:

--Janissaries cost 10 military mana per regiment and are a total noob trap. Hire generals and spend points on tech instead.
--The Ottoman government form gives above-average rulers but is pathetic compared to the incredible power of hordes or the Mughal Diwan.
--Ottoman unit pips start strong but get weak. If you're not skilled enough to beat them early, beat them late.
--The "lucky" nation bonuses are given to more than just the Ottomans. If you can't deal with lucky nations, don't play ironman and turn them off.
--You don't have to "drill all day" to get to 100% army professionalism. I never take military ideas and spend those points on generals instead. For the cost of completing one military idea group, you can hire enough generals to get almost 50% professionalism.

He was most probably talking about AI nations, considering he brought up the Lucky Nation bonus.

[Dmformom]

Автор сообщения: bri

Автор сообщения: Dmformom

Ottomans though, unless they're weak they probably have 25k stacks or higher

Otto armies half my size beat me in battle easily.

...

As I said, when you have more than the opponent then adding more so you have combat width s just asking for attrition. Not to mention the whole thing with units not directly engaged still take morale damage and other such stuff that encourages micro-managing your armies rather than just chucking the lot in to start the fight...

Half the size is a very open ended thing. Does he have 50k men against 25k ottomans? Or does he have 25k against 12-13k? These are very important differences.

And yes, in most situations just chucking men in is a dumb idea, but judging on OP's post, he is probably newish to the game and *possibly* doesn't know when to reinforce a battle, or how much to send into a battle.

[KONDO DEATH SQUAD]

Автор сообщения: Marquoz

Автор сообщения: dataseer21

Ottomans are indeed one of the strongest nations in the game. This is even if you don't think there are hidden modifiers. There is the 33 percent siege ability. There is lucky nation which is like 20 things. There is superior unit pips. There is the special Janissary unit that gets like shock and fire damage recieved bonuses. There is seemingly that the Ai gets some kind of cash bonus that I don't remember right now what it was. It involved the AI sucking so there is something dealing with income that they don't need to worry about. There is the 5 percent discipline. There is the superior unit pips of anatolia. There is the fact that if memory serves there have a completely broken government system that gives them maxed out rulers along with lucky giving them +1 in all abilities. Also there is the fact that the AI doesn't go on conquering sprees so they might just sit there drilling all day which is what you have to do to get to 100 percent.

They are stacked. They are the strongest nation in the game in my opinion with a possible exception of what I have seen austria do and spain recently.

The Ottomans aren't even close to being the strongest single player nation. The god-tier countries are:

--Oirat into Yuan keeping horde mechanics
--Timurids into Mughals
--Austria with the vassal swarm
--England with the immediate French personal union

These are very situational. This is regarding the average player that doesn't understand know all the meta

[Marquoz]

Автор сообщения: KONDO DEATH SQUAD

Автор сообщения: Marquoz

The Ottomans aren't even close to being the strongest single player nation. The god-tier countries are:

--Oirat into Yuan keeping horde mechanics
--Timurids into Mughals
--Austria with the vassal swarm
--England with the immediate French personal union

These are very situational.

Right. The situation is "an average or better player selects that nation." You have to seriously suck at EU4 to not stomp all over the game with the god-tier countries.

[ABOUT CASTLE DRACHENFELS]

Автор сообщения: Marquoz

Автор сообщения: KONDO DEATH SQUAD

These are very situational.

Right. The situation is "an average or better player selects that nation." You have to seriously suck at EU4 to not stomp all over the game with the god-tier countries.

ottoman tech is the best tech in the game bar non son. GTFO

[Marquoz]

You're incredibly clueless.