How does combat even work?

[atomic71597]

[TLDR I cant military for ♥♥♥♥, also this is a bit ranty. apologies but I am angry at time of posting]

This might be extremely stupid to ask but I literally have tried everything I can think of and have been trying for so ridiculously long to learn how combat works to actually play this game but, how am I meant to combat opposing armies? I have tried every guide, every tutorial, every composition I can find, and I cannot for the life of me win a single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ war. Half the problem is no matter I am using recommended compositions, or just slapping crap in a stack and seeing if it works, my armies just melt, even with same or higher level generals. Granted, its hard to win a war when every nation I border is allied with the English, the French, Spain, Russia, Mamaluks, ottomans, Ming, Sauron, Belrogs, the Imperium Of Man, etc (Yes I am exaggerating) each and every one of which is ready to go full on retarded gorilla mode, cave man ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moment murderballing every man woman child and pot plant in their nation into a single death stack and ♥♥♥♥♥ slapping me into a game ruin. How am I meant to counter that? My games rarely ever go past the first fifty to sixty in game years before I end up restarting because no matter what I try or what guide I follow I am unable to defeat the AI in war to actual play the damn game. am I not meant to even do the mission trees? DONT GET ME WRONG, I want to like, love, and play EU4. it looks so damn cool and so damn fun, but jesus christ it feels like it doesn't want you to enjoy it at all. it feels less like a game and more like a training program to learn the best ways to exploit the ai, Cause at this point I am 1000000000% convinced that unless you are exploiting your ass off you will not win a war against an ai naiton bigger than a minor power. I get that composition is important, but early game the only composition I can do is 16 inf 4 cav and even with that recommended composition I still cant progress down any mission trees and win anywars against non-minor powers. I'm not gonna lie im kinda stupid irl some times, but am I that retarded that I am missing something completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ obvious thats causing me to get ♥♥♥♥♥ slapped out of playing every time I attempt to actually enjoy this game and get any form of progress into it? I know how compositions work, I know about the combat width and to always build your army to that, I know artillery is usless in combat before mil tech 16, I know about terrain pentalties and using riviers/mountains/ forts to your advantage to win wars, I know your suppose to have as many cannons as infantry late game, like say your combat width is 30 so you would have 30 inf and 30 art (not that I ever make it far enough to actually SEE artillery) so respectfully I ask WHAT AM I MISSING! why is combat so ridiculously hard? how am I even meant to deal with the ai my mission trees push me to fight being allied to 19/20ths of the map (exaggeration) and murder balling all their forces in a single death stack I cant possibly hope to defeat? I can't even get my own allies to join a way 90% of the time (no joke) even when offering land because they just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wont, they shant, they refrain. I guess my allies would rather sit on a chair scratching their ass and day dream about pickles or something than actually help in the slightest.

[Thestancis]

how the ♥♥♥♥ are you struggling to win wars? early game until late 1500 use inf cav with cannons for siege armies, take quality/offensive if you want quality armies (+economic for policies). it isnt hoi, the bigger number usually wins.

[Azunai]

Don't play minor powers while you're still a noob. It's easier to learn the game when you play a strong country like the ottomans or castille.

Once you get the hang of it you can move on and play smaller tags successfully.

[Irtakus]

What country do you play as?
Also, the perfect army composition does not matter that much here, the most important thing is that you don't attack into mountains, hills or forests.
You also don't need to immediately rush into foreign territory, you can remain behind your forts and wait for the enemy soldiers to die a bit (due to attrition) before engaging.
The next problem is that not all countries have troops of the same strength. 1 Infantry unit of the ottomans will handily beat a french infantry unit in 1444.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Thestancis:

how the ♥♥♥♥ are you struggling to win wars? early game until late 1500 use inf cav with cannons for siege armies, take quality/offensive if you want quality armies (+economic for policies). it isnt hoi, the bigger number usually wins.

I am considerable more calm now than I was, sorry for the ranty post. I dont know why I am struggling to win wars, I follow literally every guide I can find and every strat I can but when ever my armies fight another nations, they just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ melt. I don't know or understand why. atleast in HOI I can just beef up a division to be a ♥♥♥♥ wrecker and obliterate front lines, in stellaris I can tailor fleets to take minimal damage and wreck more powerful fleets with the right moduls, in crusader kings 3 I can specifically train really tanky men at arms to win wars through sheer defensive power. in this I kinda just gotta mass more and more men from a man power pool that can take less hits than an Asthmatic bong user. I'm still trying to learn the games combat mechanics. everything else I have a decent grip on.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Irtakus:

What country do you play as?
Also, the perfect army composition does not matter that much here, the most important thing is that you don't attack into mountains, hills or forests.
You also don't need to immediately rush into foreign territory, you can remain behind your forts and wait for the enemy soldiers to die a bit (due to attrition) before engaging.
The next problem is that not all countries have troops of the same strength. 1 Infantry unit of the ottomans will handily beat a french infantry unit in 1444.

this week specifically I've been trying out nations from the king of kings dlc I just bought. I'm starting to regret bothering to getting the dlc if i'm being honest. I've been really trying to learn Qara Qoyunlu and the mamaluks.

[D-Black Catto]

why don't you learn the game yourself and think for yourself instead of following guides and asking for advice?

[Marquoz]

Now that you're calmer, I'll say a few things.

First, the combat in this game can definitely be mastered. But to do so, I recommend you play powerful, forgiving nations like the Ottomans, France, and Vijayanagar for a few hundred hours. You need to learn in easy settings before you try much tougher ones like QQ.

Second, forming an alliance web stronger than that of all possible enemy combinations is your first job in any campaign. The AI will never attack you if you + your allies are more powerful than they are. It's been many real-life years since I have heard the "AI declares war" sound effect, with the exception of events like the Surrender of Maine.

Third, some of the things you said in your rant post aren't accurate. For example, "I know artillery is usless in combat before mil tech 16" is false. It starts becoming helpful at 10 and by 13 becomes valuable. I field full backrows of artillery by tech 13 as a result.

Fourth, in addition to a strong alliance web, you want to grow as large as possible as fast as possible so that you rely primarily on your own troops. Your allies have terrible AI. Your enemy has terrible AI. Your enemy's allies have terrible AI. Once you learn what you're doing, you will have the only competent military force on the planet. This is an ENORMOUS edge. You will go entire campaigns without losing a single battle when you master EU4 combat.

Finally, here's a copy-paste of my standard combat advice:

Battle results are determined by the following factors:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead. The key to this is to avoid early military idea groups. I never take one before 6th and I often skip them altogether. Spend your military points on a tech lead + hiring many generals (some of which will be great) + the army professionalism hiring generals provides. That combo is stronger than any single military group.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forests. Don't cross rivers to attack. Make your enemies cross one to attack you.
--Generals. But not just any general will do. Siege pips are wonderful against forts but do nothing in a battle. Fire pips are almost useless until infantry develop good fire values and cannons advance a few levels. Shock pips are critical in the early game. Etc.
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At tech 7, when artillery first unlocks, you only care about the siege bonus they provide, but by the time you reach military tech 13+, you want a complete row if you can afford it.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling. The AI loves to drill, and the bonuses it provides are powerful. Once you can afford it, drill your armies in peacetime.
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups--but note that you can do VERY well in combat without either of these.


Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by D-Black Catto:

why don't you learn the game yourself and think for yourself instead of following guides and asking for advice?

mostly because when I was trying some ideas I had it never worked, but then again when I started trying advice from guides and how to vids that rarely worked either so maybe I should have just kept doing it myself.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Now that you're calmer, I'll say a few things.

First, the combat in this game can definitely be mastered. But to do so, I recommend you play strong easy nations like the Ottomans, France, and Vijayanagar for a few hundred hours. You need to learn in easy settings before you try much tougher one like QQ.

Second, forming an alliance web stronger than that of all possible enemy combinations is your first job in any campaign. The AI will never attack you if you + your allies are more powerful than they are. It's been many real-life years since I have heard the "AI declares war" sound effect, with the exception of events like the Surrender of Maine.

Third, some of the things you said in your rant post aren't accurate. For example, "I know artillery is usless in combat before mil tech 16" is false. It starts becoming helpful at 10 and by 13 becomes valuable. I field full backrows of artillery by tech 13 as a result.

Fourth, in addition to a strong alliance web, you want to grow as large as possible as fast as possible so that you rely primarily on your own troops. Your allies have terrible AI. Your enemy has terrible AI. Your enemy's allies have terrible AI. Once you learn what you're doing, you will have the only competent military force on the planet. This is an ENORMOUS edge. You will go entire campaigns without losing a single battle when you master EU4 combat.

Finally, here's a copy-paste of my standard combat advice:

Battle results are determined by the following factors:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead. The key to this is to avoid early military idea groups. I never take one before 6th and I often skip them altogether. Spend your military points on a tech lead + hiring many generals (some of which will be great) + the army professionalism hiring generals provides. That combo is stronger than any single military group.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forests. Don't cross rivers to attack. Make your enemies cross one to attack you.
--Generals. But not just any general will do. Siege pips are wonderful against forts but do nothing in a battle. Fire pips are almost useless until infantry develop good fire values and cannons advance a few levels. Shock pips are critical in the early game. Etc.
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At tech 7, when artillery first unlocks, you only care about the siege bonus they provide, but by the time you reach military tech 13+, you want a complete row if you can afford it.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling. The AI loves to drill, and the bonuses it provides are powerful. Once you can afford it, drill your armies in peacetime.
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups--but note that you can do VERY well in combat without either of these.


Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have.

No joke, you just gave me more info than litterally anyone else ever has. Thank you sir/ma'am which ever you prefer. I again apologize for the ranty post. I normally am a really calm and nice person, I dont even remember what happened to piss me off so much to begin with if I'm being honest. Thank you for the advice. sorry again for the ranty post.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Now that you're calmer, I'll say a few things.

First, the combat in this game can definitely be mastered. But to do so, I recommend you play strong easy nations like the Ottomans, France, and Vijayanagar for a few hundred hours. You need to learn in easy settings before you try much tougher one like QQ.

Second, forming an alliance web stronger than that of all possible enemy combinations is your first job in any campaign. The AI will never attack you if you + your allies are more powerful than they are. It's been many real-life years since I have heard the "AI declares war" sound effect, with the exception of events like the Surrender of Maine.

Third, some of the things you said in your rant post aren't accurate. For example, "I know artillery is usless in combat before mil tech 16" is false. It starts becoming helpful at 10 and by 13 becomes valuable. I field full backrows of artillery by tech 13 as a result.

Fourth, in addition to a strong alliance web, you want to grow as large as possible as fast as possible so that you rely primarily on your own troops. Your allies have terrible AI. Your enemy has terrible AI. Your enemy's allies have terrible AI. Once you learn what you're doing, you will have the only competent military force on the planet. This is an ENORMOUS edge. You will go entire campaigns without losing a single battle when you master EU4 combat.

Finally, here's a copy-paste of my standard combat advice:

Battle results are determined by the following factors:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead. The key to this is to avoid early military idea groups. I never take one before 6th and I often skip them altogether. Spend your military points on a tech lead + hiring many generals (some of which will be great) + the army professionalism hiring generals provides. That combo is stronger than any single military group.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forests. Don't cross rivers to attack. Make your enemies cross one to attack you.
--Generals. But not just any general will do. Siege pips are wonderful against forts but do nothing in a battle. Fire pips are almost useless until infantry develop good fire values and cannons advance a few levels. Shock pips are critical in the early game. Etc.
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At tech 7, when artillery first unlocks, you only care about the siege bonus they provide, but by the time you reach military tech 13+, you want a complete row if you can afford it.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling. The AI loves to drill, and the bonuses it provides are powerful. Once you can afford it, drill your armies in peacetime.
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups--but note that you can do VERY well in combat without either of these.


Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have.

if I could ask on thing it would be how does drilling make your army more powerful? I didn't know you could drill them. I'm assuming that button is on the same panel as the option to do scorched earth, or consolidate regiments.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by atomic71597:

if I could ask on thing it would be how does drilling make your army more powerful? I didn't know you could drill them. I'm assuming that button is on the same panel as the option to do scorched earth, or consolidate regiments.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Army#Army_professionalism_and_drilling

Drilling does two things:

• It raises the drill rating of the army being drilled which gives bonuses to those regiments (more damage dealt, less damage received, faster movement)
  
  
• It increases your nation's overall army professionalism, which gives some combat bonuses and also progressively unlocks some variably useful features (e.g. regaining manpower when disbanding a regiment)

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by atomic71597:

if I could ask on thing it would be how does drilling make your army more powerful? I didn't know you could drill them. I'm assuming that button is on the same panel as the option to do scorched earth, or consolidate regiments.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Army#Army_professionalism_and_drilling

Drilling does two things:

• It raises the drill rating of the army being drilled which gives bonuses to those regiments (more damage dealt, less damage received, faster movement)
  
  
• It increases your nation's overall army professionalism, which gives some combat bonuses and also progressively unlocks some variably useful features (e.g. regaining manpower when disbanding a regiment)

Thank you sir/ma'am (which ever you prefer) I serenely appreciate the help.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I think you can use the pseudonym people have instead of including nonsensical gender categories.

Now Marquoz pretty covered the essential strategy to win without a sweat. You can win using other moves but it requires some observations you'll need to make by yourself, and it's just if you intend to focus on other things than just crushing AI. It's better to play that way when you'll know how to crush AI and more importantly if it suits your playstyle.

[atomic71597]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

I think you can use the pseudonym people have instead of including nonsensical gender categories.

one, whats a pseudonym? and two, I was just trying to polite. didn't intend on upsetting anyone.

[RCMidas]

Pseudo: fake
Nym: name
Pseudonym: fake name

In this case, their Steam name. Your parents did not name you atomic71597, for instance, but online here that is your name.