Aggressive expansion too excessive!!

[DK]

It seems the devs in the latest patch added some tweaks to the aggressive expansion, I agree that it needed some work but for gods sake they went too far in this change, its ridiculously high , for simply getting discovered fabricating a claim I get -30 on most of my neighboring countries and countries that are somewhat far around -15 and then coalitions start forming against me left and right.

This is waaaay too high I don’t even want to start fabricating claims let alone do any type of conquest because if I do the next coalition war will defiantly target me. I cant get any reasonable relations going without it getting screwed up when I just take a province or two. One game as Brandenburg I waited more than 50 years doing nothing just for the aggressive expansion to go away and for the coalitions to be called off.

[Bandit17]

引用自 Nils：

its not about how much you can conquer, its about how much fun it is to wait for your ae to fall off. Sure its still fairly easy to conquer that much (i play normal setting though). But im expecting a fluent and fun game. It was quite fun before the patch. The always blobbing ai was a bit annoying, ae decrease with max modifiers was redicolous but it was fluent and fun. Now its not as much so i complain. And anybody posting about l2p its still doable only gets on my nerve even more!

This is what happens with the old 1.6 AE:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=275732349

I don't call that fun and fluid. I call that taking candy from a baby boring as heck. I stopped playing it got so easy. No coalitions forming to stop me. Only thing holding me back was Admin & Diplo points. And I'm not telling you to L2P. I'm trying to share methods of getting around the new AE modifiers and showing you the results if done correctly.

[Dreamers]

引用自 Nils：

its not about how much you can conquer, its about how much fun it is to wait for your ae to fall off. Sure its still fairly easy to conquer that much (i play normal setting though). But im expecting a fluent and fun game. It was quite fun before the patch. The always blobbing ai was a bit annoying, ae decrease with max modifiers was redicolous but it was fluent and fun. Now its not as much so i complain. And anybody posting about l2p its still doable only gets on my nerve even more!

Look I am only saying that I personally didn't even notice AE when playing Ironman- potentially because I played only nations near the border- but this isn't me telling you something I think, this is me stating a fact. Now it is entirely possible(and likely considering a few quick tests I did) they should change how AE works currently but for the time being you can A. Complain endlessly B. Play another nation that will be capable of doing non-stop war from beginning to end without worrying about AE. Your choice.

As for Paradox making extreme changes... Every game I played that had actual changes to it instead of just fixing bugs always created it's own problems.

[robert.steven.marshall]

I feel like I'm missing something here people are complaining about -20 or -30 AE. If you lose this at 3 a year then it takes 7 or 10 years for this to dissipate which is not a long time to wait. It takes 5 years for a truce to be over anyway. You can improve relations to plus 100 to remove coalitions. I get coalitions against me but they tend to be a logical response to my fast expansion and nations feeling threatened. If you have planned ahead and have allies then coalitions are mainly there as a natural response to prevent you from attacking again not a way of being cut down. There are enough posts here and elsewhere to explain ways to prevent AE in the first place and to improve how quickly it disappears.

Central Europe and especially the HRE is the biggest place this game mechanic is felt and so in this area you have to be especially careful and cautious. If you don't like AE and can't take the advice on board play a different nation in another part of the world.

AE is nowhere near as bad as the -200 from nations wanting your provinces anyhow.

[Dreamers]

引用自 robert.steven.marshall：

AE is nowhere near as bad as the -200 from nations wanting your provinces anyhow.

I have not really tested with either provinces that are core or necessity for the nation to form something else(except for Naples with forming Italy but that isn't much) but both the Ottomans and France have some negatives varying from 9 to 131 depending on how things are at the moment(indeed there were times I could have went for an alliance with the former) but it is rather logical since I went to deliberately block them thus for this at least I accept and have dealt with in game without any problem.

GB on the other hand wants a few logical provinces here and there like they but also a myriad of random provinces I can't see the logic behind. Then for both GB and Russia when they get the mision to go to estabilish presence in a region they immediatealy went to -200 relations(which I think odd since I understood relations as being mere sum of the modifiers so how can a single -200 bring it from 150 to -200?) with me for owning one single province in the entire region.

Absurdly enough GB didn't cancel the MA either way for decades until my ruler died and our royal marriage ended and Russia at some point dropped the wants thus I allied and married it again(didn't really have anyone I wanted for the free spot) which lasted until it got a mission to estabilish presence in India at which it promptly broke our alliance and the one with... Bahramis? I think, which was the almost sole Indian country by that point.

I am considering the possibility that is not the want mechanic itself broken but some specific countries since as mentioned GB and Russia are like that while a dozen others wanting my provinces are far more reasonable.

[robert.steven.marshall]

As Mughal's I've had "Vijayanagar wants (pick 6 or 7 Indian based provinces) and 346 more provinces" -200. Same to a lesser extent (just 200 or so provinces they wanted) for Oirat, Ming, Mamluks, Hungary. I could go on endlessly naming countries. None of them had a mission to take my lands.

[Dreamers]

Hum that is rather interesting, I wonder what causes the difference in experience. Is there any country that wants only a few of your provinces and for more or less logical reasons?

Anyway it seems to me that what I see for certain countries is what it is supposed to be with the extremes I see in others not intended but could be wrong and it is mere sheer luck that some countries were decent about it, even more than EU3 this game seems to default to unlikely things happening.

Also for the record at the game mentioned I am Portugal.

[robert.steven.marshall]

To be honest I got bored with Mughals at 400 plus provinces so not sure if there were any countries wanting only a few provinces. I can fire up my ironman game to check if needs be.

My most recent game as Burgundy (and then Netherlands when I formed them) most countries only want what I took from them (France til I destroyed them, Portugal and Castile more recently) excepting the likes of Morocco and Ottomans who want land in the Sevilla trade node. So this recent game it has made sense but I'm nowhere near as big as before.

After the Mughal game I'm just expecting to switch on a sixpence at any moment. I think it should be limited to -100 though personally.

[Pozz]

引用自 robert.steven.marshall：

To be honest I got bored with Mughals at 400 plus provinces so not sure if there were any countries wanting only a few provinces. I can fire up my ironman game to check if needs be.

My most recent game as Burgundy (and then Netherlands when I formed them) most countries only want what I took from them (France til I destroyed them, Portugal and Castile more recently) excepting the likes of Morocco and Ottomans who want land in the Sevilla trade node. So this recent game it has made sense but I'm nowhere near as big as before.

After the Mughal game I'm just expecting to switch on a sixpence at any moment. I think it should be limited to -100 though personally.

Let me guess, they feel "threatened" by you as well ?

"Oh no, he's so big and strong.... I want all his lands !!" :P

[robert.steven.marshall]

Yeah, pretty much everyone felt threatened in the Mughal game, I had been allies with the Mamluks for 200 years (married hoping for a personal union) until they became "threatened" and it became pointless as they wouldn't join any wars. I felt bad for destroyig them. Actually now I think of it most of them were hostile if they weren't rivals. The thing was I made a lot of mistakes as them (I didn't even get the religious idea which is just plain ridiculous) which is why these complaints seem daft to me tbh.

[Bandit17]

In my Russian campaign Japan would flip every decade or so to being super friendly and seeking an alliance with me to wanting every single Russian provence in the world. So I think it is sometimes more about a country telling you it doesn't like you than them really wanting those provences.

Had I actually made an alliance with Japan than I would never had a problem with them unless I actually took provences in their region (Korea for ex).

[Pozz]

引用自 Bandit17：

In my Russian campaign Japan would flip every decade or so to being super friendly and seeking an alliance with me to wanting every single Russian provence in the world. So I think it is sometimes more about a country telling you it doesn't like you than them really wanting those provences.

Had I actually made an alliance with Japan than I would never had a problem with them unless I actually took provences in their region (Korea for ex).

It's still a rather sketchy feature. A nation should never be wanting far away provinces they've never heard of, let alone owned.

I have no problem having issues occur over southern India cause Delhi wants India, but when they start wanting Fyn or Reykavic, it gets a bit too much :P

[Bandit17]

引用自 Pozz：

引用自 Bandit17：

In my Russian campaign Japan would flip every decade or so to being super friendly and seeking an alliance with me to wanting every single Russian provence in the world. So I think it is sometimes more about a country telling you it doesn't like you than them really wanting those provences.

Had I actually made an alliance with Japan than I would never had a problem with them unless I actually took provences in their region (Korea for ex).

It's still a rather sketchy feature. A nation should never be wanting far away provinces they've never heard of, let alone owned.

I have no problem having issues occur over southern India cause Delhi wants India, but when they start wanting Fyn or Reykavic, it gets a bit too much :P

I agree. I guess I have learned to just take it more as a figurative rather than literal diplo mechanic. It's just that country's way of telling me how much they "love" me! :P

[Pozz]

引用自 Bandit17：

引用自 Pozz：

It's still a rather sketchy feature. A nation should never be wanting far away provinces they've never heard of, let alone owned.

I have no problem having issues occur over southern India cause Delhi wants India, but when they start wanting Fyn or Reykavic, it gets a bit too much :P

I agree. I guess I have learned to just take it more as a figurative rather than literal diplo mechanic. It's just that country's way of telling me how much they "love" me! :P

Would be easier to understand if they simply give it "-50 for cores, -35 for region and -25 for claims" pr region instead of having it be "oh you have 450 regions ? Well guess what I'm a OPM and I want all of them" :P

Issue is really not for the experienced players, but new players will look at it and think "wtf did I do to have him cancel our alliance, rival me and wanting 20 of my provinces" when in reality all they did was to take a province France feels belong to them.

[Bandit17]

引用自 Pozz：

引用自 Bandit17：

I agree. I guess I have learned to just take it more as a figurative rather than literal diplo mechanic. It's just that country's way of telling me how much they "love" me! :P

Would be easier to understand if they simply give it "-50 for cores, -35 for region and -25 for claims" pr region instead of having it be "oh you have 450 regions ? Well guess what I'm a OPM and I want all of them" :P

Issue is really not for the experienced players, but new players will look at it and think "wtf did I do to have him cancel our alliance, rival me and wanting 20 of my provinces" when in reality all they did was to take a province France feels belong to them.

+1

[ArcanisCz]

引用自 Pozz：

Issue is really not for the experienced players, but new players will look at it and think "wtf did I do to have him cancel our alliance, rival me and wanting 20 of my provinces" when in reality all they did was to take a province France feels belong to them.

+1. Even for quite experienced players, it is very strange and annoying mechanic, which i do not like. It seems, like PI felt "border friction" is not sufficient due to player's vassal buffers. It would feel logical for some minor malus, but -200 for bohemia wanting all my Ottoman empire incuding yemen and surrounding lands?
Most of the hate from me is not being able to control or see reasons behind machanic, its totaly random from my point of view. WHich sucks.
(For AE, rules are quite clear, even if they overdid some numbers, it can be understood to some degree)