Allies + Trust

[MasterYi]

I thought having 80 trust with an Ally would not make them desire your lands? I even boosted Trust to 90 but they still broke alliance due to desiring my lands... Looks like currying favours since day 1 was for nothing,

Did they change anything in the updates? Do you need 100 trust? Or does trust not prevent allies desiring your land?

[cayenne_spicy]

Nothing prevents it. Alliances aren't going to be able to be permanent in most cases. In particular, if the ally acquires claims or cores inside your territory due to their missions, they're gonna want to pursue that just the same as you would. The only times I've personally experienced allies not ending up breaking off once we had a large shared border is if I was substantially stronger than the ally and so they had no realistic capability to try and take any of the provinces anyway... they seem to keep chill in that case. But long-term, your "allies" should be vassals/PUs whom you've nurtured and fed land into in order to keep them useful.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by MasterYi:

I thought having 80 trust with an Ally would not make them desire your lands?

Nope. Trust of 80 or greater prevents them from rivaling you, but it doesn't block them from wanting your land. It's best to have allies that don't border you and to expect to lose your alliance with them if you grow large enough to do so. That's fine by me, since I plan to betray and consume any ally that I border anyway, lol.

[MasterYi]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by MasterYi:

I thought having 80 trust with an Ally would not make them desire your lands?

Nope. Trust of 80 or greater prevents them from rivaling you, but it doesn't block them from wanting your land. It's best to have allies that don't border you and to expect to lose your alliance with them if you grow large enough to do so. That's fine by me, since I plan to betray and consume any ally that I border anyway, lol.

Oh that's a shame, should've used the curried favours to milk Muscovy for ducats and manpower instead...

I thought I could keep them as a long term ally to PU them in the future as Karrabakh > Armenia, They started hating me as soon as I took 5 provinces in the Azov and Astrakhan states since they were part of my mission and permaclaims.

[m142]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by MasterYi:

I thought having 80 trust with an Ally would not make them desire your lands?

Nope. Trust of 80 or greater prevents them from rivaling you, but it doesn't block them from wanting your land. It's best to have allies that don't border you and to expect to lose your alliance with them if you grow large enough to do so. That's fine by me, since I plan to betray and consume any ally that I border anyway, lol.

actually that's fallse.
100 don't mean s... to bot's.
at 100 they can try and instal dynasty at your throne or break aliance just ti add you as rival , that's just plain stupid ai with out reason.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by m142:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Nope. Trust of 80 or greater prevents them from rivaling you, but it doesn't block them from wanting your land. It's best to have allies that don't border you and to expect to lose your alliance with them if you grow large enough to do so. That's fine by me, since I plan to betray and consume any ally that I border anyway, lol.

actually that's fallse.

No, it isn't. Here's the exact quote from the wiki:

AI will not rival countries with more than 80 trust under any circumstances, and are less likely to rival countries with high (but still below 80) trust. They will not ally countries with 30 and less trust

[m142]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by m142:

actually that's fallse.

No, it isn't. Here's the exact quote from the wiki:

AI will not rival countries with more than 80 trust under any circumstances, and are less likely to rival countries with high (but still below 80) trust. They will not ally countries with 30 and less trust

tell that to Austria when Hapsburg famili will find your land atractive.
ai is ai , instaling heir / geting imperialism ambition is more important than aliance , add up agresive expansion and bom , now you don't have allay and get penalty to trust + hostile that turns to rival few days later.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Breaking alliance because they desire your land, then rivaling you when trust dips lower, isn't the same thing as immediately rivaling you while you're still allied with high trust.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

AI rivals you even at 100 trust just because AI try to fill its rival slots and if there's just a human that can fulfill this slot, it will fill it. Now, it doesn't break alliance if it doesn't prey on your lands, and therefore won't rival you as long as you're ally.

[drchaos]

if you want to heavily invest in a long time ally pick something you wont border and have disputes about land. its a reason why great britain is such a nice ally now, they are not that strong fighting but they dont have money issues and they dont want any land on the mainland europe

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

AI rivals you even at 100 trust...

Unless the latest patch broke something, they don't. Check out the quote from the wiki I posted earlier.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

The last update didn't change anything, it's been like this for as long as I recall whatever the wiki says. And it's fine by me, I don't use trust much anymore, I tend to drop allies as soon as I can rely solely on vassals to fill up my relation slots.

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by m142:

actually that's fallse.
100 don't mean s... to bot's.
at 100 they can try and instal dynasty at your throne or break aliance just ti add you as rival , that's just plain stupid ai with out reason.

Which doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥, lol. Actually if the AI puts THEIR dynasty on YOUR throne it just makes it easier to PU them.

Not to mention that all favor interactions (aside from increasing trust) need confirmation of the ally. They cant put their dynasty on your throne without you accepting it.

Also, what Marquoz said is correct. Trust over 80, they wont rival you. So at least you have that insurance. This can be quite important especially for newer players since the AI looooves to fill its rival slots and this could backfire quite hard for the player.

Another thing to mention is that if the AI calculates its desire to maintain the alliance, trust also plays a role. So lets say your ally allied all 3 of your rivals for whatever reason - that could make them break the alliance. Trust helps preventing that.

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

The last update didn't change anything, it's been like this for as long as I recall whatever the wiki says. And it's fine by me, I don't use trust much anymore, I tend to drop allies as soon as I can rely solely on vassals to fill up my relation slots.

Except you are wrong about this and Marquoz is correct. He has 6x your playtime, if he claims something you gotta be pretty damn cocky to claim otherwise lol - and IF someone with such a high playtime claims a mechanic exists and you disagree on that simply test it with console commands. "No u" arguments (which is how i call the "i am right you are wrong" statements) are silly and pointless, if not backed up by anything at all.

Tech 2 nations to mil tech 32 via console and integrate some lands so absolutely nobody can rival you except this specific other nation (Funny enough, if you tech nogai to 32 and uzbek is still 3 they can STILL rival you).
Add 100 trust for both sides.
Unpause and wait 1-2 months so the AI adjusts everything
Now pick 1 of the 2 nations and check the other's desired land. Integrate a lot of it and they instantly break the alliance.
Now, trust decays over time if not allied - but it will stay over 80 for quite some time. And guess what? The AI doesnt rival you.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3282688950
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3282689003

[Mr.M]

You can speed 5 through it for years until the trust drops down and you will notice something - the AI wont rival you. Never ever.

Except until you drop to 79 trust. If you dont want to wait use the "trust x -21" command to instantly get to 79 from 100. And they will INSTANTLY rival you IF they are at peace.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3282695258

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Playtime has nothing to do with that. That's just what I've been experiencing. Latest time it happened, Spain breaking alliance and rivaling me as England while we were allies from the beginning and with trust at 90 after a war in Italy.
Playtime means nothing anyway. Authority arguments are always fallacious.