How many Military Ideas and how early?

[Aksolotli]

I know this depends on Nations to Nations, but is there any good point for Military Ideas?
Like how many and how early for nations like Denmark. Or how many or how early for nations like Portugal.

[Damphair]

*awaiting incoming Marquoz post about why you should never pick any military ideas*

[Damphair]

Jokes aside, as Marquoz usually says on these forums, you don't need any military ideas. Use your excess military points to mass hire generals for to get your army professionalism to 100% as early as possible, and to stay ahead of tech.

However if you don't care about min-maxing and just wanna have fun, I'd pick a military idea group as the third idea. Offensive>Quality for packing the hardest punch, discipline is the stat you want to stack as high as possible, and both ideas bring army tradition and guaranteed general pips (siege from offensive is very nice early). Quantity can be good if you're in no position to recruit a larger army and you are surrounded by larger nations, smaller OPMs in the middle east can make good use of this. (I never use it however)

[D-Black Catto]

Originally posted by Damphair:

Jokes aside, as Marquoz usually says on these forums, you don't need any military ideas. Use your excess military points to mass hire generals for to get your army professionalism to 100% as early as possible, and to stay ahead of tech.

However if you don't care about min-maxing and just wanna have fun, I'd pick a military idea group as the third idea. Offensive>Quality for packing the hardest punch, discipline is the stat you want to stack as high as possible, and both ideas bring army tradition and guaranteed general pips (siege from offensive is very nice early). Quantity can be good if you're in no position to recruit a larger army and you are surrounded by larger nations, smaller OPMs in the middle east can make good use of this. (I never use it however)

no, artistocratic is where it's at. aristocratic is the kind of military idea that has few military buffs, but has a lot of stuff other then military that is super useful. it also has some nice policies in combination with some other ideas.

[KharnTheKhan]

Originally posted by D-Black Catto:

Originally posted by Damphair:

Jokes aside, as Marquoz usually says on these forums, you don't need any military ideas. Use your excess military points to mass hire generals for to get your army professionalism to 100% as early as possible, and to stay ahead of tech.

However if you don't care about min-maxing and just wanna have fun, I'd pick a military idea group as the third idea. Offensive>Quality for packing the hardest punch, discipline is the stat you want to stack as high as possible, and both ideas bring army tradition and guaranteed general pips (siege from offensive is very nice early). Quantity can be good if you're in no position to recruit a larger army and you are surrounded by larger nations, smaller OPMs in the middle east can make good use of this. (I never use it however)

no, artistocratic is where it's at. aristocratic is the kind of military idea that has few military buffs, but has a lot of stuff other then military that is super useful. it also has some nice policies in combination with some other ideas.

Pair aristocratic with quality is pretty nice

[fingerneun]

The more you want to expand the less military ideas you take.
Never take an military idea when you have trouble keeping up with military tech.

In a game with a focus on expanding I mght take horde for horde stuff, divine if I want to cultureconvert, or offensive/ aristoctaic for better sieging.

Military ideas are best in a shorter game when you have you hardest fights, when you have finshed your idea group (with new tech) and can't outgrow your enemy.
I use quality when navy is a factor. Aristocratic, when I use horses, Offensive if I don't have a better plan.

[dbond1]

Mil points are the least precious in my view and so I have no problems taking military groups. I've never done a run without them. Unless I am Emperor or rushing Exploration, I always take a mil idea group first. Which one it is depends on the nation I am playing and the overall situation plus I consider how it might dovetail with whatever goals I have set for the run.

Defensive used to be one of the best idea groups in the game, and for years I took that first in just about every game. It got hit hard with the nerf stick and sadly it is not so good any more, but I still take it occasionally, especially if I am playing tall.

I take MIL first, DIP second and then ADM third. This allows me to keep teching up ADM to get to the third idea group fastest. This is ADM tech 10 which happens to come around the same time as a Discovery Age golden age, and now with three idea groups I can get the discount on all of them from the GA.

The rest of the MIL groups can be any of them, depending on who I am playing, and just whatever flair I want to impart on the run. Optimal, min-max considerations are rarely taken. If I see my nation as a naval power I might take Naval group, and Maritime too!

Of the remaining MIL groups, I reckon Quantity is the one I take most often, but all of them are useful. Denmark has poor troops compared to your immediate rivals. Shock damage and manpower, so filling in this weakness with a MIL group or two seems a fair play to me.

I have the balanced idea groups turned off and in a recent Persia run I took four MIL groups. Expansion and economy were already rolling, so I made my troops exceptional because it is fun to do this. Persia's troops are already some of the best in the game and this just makes them outrageous. I say pick whatever you think fits your vision of what your nation should be.

And lest you think I am crazy for thinking Defensive was good, check these ideas out. This is what it used to be

https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1091617/firefox_WFmKgw6JAJ.png

[Ashling]

Important to keep in mind that ideas make their corresponding tech cheaper, so it’s more like being temporarily behind on tech for faster and easier tech in the future.

If you ever get into the late game and wonder why your tech is so much easier and cheaper, this is half of it.

Originally posted by dbond1:

I take MIL first, DIP second and then ADM third. This allows me to keep teching up ADM to get to the third idea group fastest. This is ADM tech 10 which happens to come around the same time as a Discovery Age golden age, and now with three idea groups I can get the discount on all of them from the GA.

The first few mil techs are the most important and impactful which is why people usually don’t pick military ideas first. The tech slows down a bit in the middle, though

[dbond1]

Yes 2% per idea. It adds up.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by dbond1:

Mil points are the least precious in my view and so I have no problems taking military groups. I've never done a run without them. Unless I am Emperor or rushing Exploration, I always take a mil idea group first. Which one it is depends on the nation I am playing and the overall situation plus I consider how it might dovetail with whatever goals I have set for the run.

Defensive used to be one of the best idea groups in the game, and for years I took that first in just about every game. It got hit hard with the nerf stick and sadly it is not so good any more, but I still take it occasionally, especially if I am playing tall.

I take MIL first, DIP second and then ADM third. This allows me to keep teching up ADM to get to the third idea group fastest. This is ADM tech 10 which happens to come around the same time as a Discovery Age golden age, and now with three idea groups I can get the discount on all of them from the GA.

The rest of the MIL groups can be any of them, depending on who I am playing, and just whatever flair I want to impart on the run. Optimal, min-max considerations are rarely taken. If I see my nation as a naval power I might take Naval group, and Maritime too!

Of the remaining MIL groups, I reckon Quantity is the one I take most often, but all of them are useful. Denmark has poor troops compared to your immediate rivals. Shock damage and manpower, so filling in this weakness with a MIL group or two seems a fair play to me.

I have the balanced idea groups turned off and in a recent Persia run I took four MIL groups. Expansion and economy were already rolling, so I made my troops exceptional because it is fun to do this. Persia's troops are already some of the best in the game and this just makes them outrageous. I say pick whatever you think fits your vision of what your nation should be.

And lest you think I am crazy for thinking Defensive was good, check these ideas out. This is what it used to be

https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1091617/firefox_WFmKgw6JAJ.png

Was defensive actually nerfed? The final got changed to +1 attrition, and +1 MAX attrition. I find that it is still very strong and quite nasty.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by Ashy:

Important to keep in mind that ideas make their corresponding tech cheaper, so it’s more like being temporarily behind on tech for faster and easier tech in the future.

If you ever get into the late game and wonder why your tech is so much easier and cheaper, this is half of it.

Originally posted by dbond1:

I take MIL first, DIP second and then ADM third. This allows me to keep teching up ADM to get to the third idea group fastest. This is ADM tech 10 which happens to come around the same time as a Discovery Age golden age, and now with three idea groups I can get the discount on all of them from the GA.

The first few mil techs are the most important and impactful which is why people usually don’t pick military ideas first. The tech slows down a bit in the middle, though

I would say it's crappy balancing. The end result is that you don't pick them in the early game, but if you blobbed a bit then you have no need for them.

[dbond1]

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Was defensive actually nerfed? The final got changed to +1 attrition, and +1 MAX attrition. I find that it is still very strong and quite nasty.

I think it's no doubt. 25% morale and 50% land attrition are fantastic. And let's face it, most of your fights are in the other guy's back yard, not your own, so half attrition for my troops is quite a bit better than +1 attrition for the enemy.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by dbond1:

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Was defensive actually nerfed? The final got changed to +1 attrition, and +1 MAX attrition. I find that it is still very strong and quite nasty.

I think it's no doubt. 25% morale and 50% land attrition are fantastic. And let's face it, most of your fights are in the other guy's back yard, not your own, so half attrition for my troops is quite a bit better than +1 attrition for the enemy.

I always remembered it as 15% morale.

Also, it was buffed - it isn't just +1 attrition for the enemy, it is also +1 to *MAX* attrition for the enemy. This is a big buff.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/index.php?title=Idea_groups&oldid=136506#Defensive

-25% Land attrition was replaced by +33% garrison size.

[Octopuses]

In a short playthrough that's under 100 years I will probably pick offensive idea early. In playthroughs where I have to blob a lot, or if I play in HRE, I won't pick military ideas. They are just not worth it compared to diplo/admin/influence/religious.

[dbond1]

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Also, it was buffed - it isn't just +1 attrition for the enemy, it is also +1 to *MAX* attrition for the enemy. This is a big buff.

Yes, I can agree with that, but for me this is less useful in an expansionist run, and why I noted I do like Defensive when playing taller nations. But in the opportunity cost sweepstakes it usually loses out to Offensive, Quality or Quantity when going expansionist.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by dbond1:

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Also, it was buffed - it isn't just +1 attrition for the enemy, it is also +1 to *MAX* attrition for the enemy. This is a big buff.

Yes, I can agree with that, but for me this is less useful in an expansionist run, and why I noted I do like Defensive when playing taller nations. But in the opportunity cost sweepstakes it usually loses out to Offensive, Quality or Quantity when going expansionist.

Quantity? The one idea set that has no importance past the early game? Offensive or Quality I could agree on, but really, quantity?