Best idea groups for Byzantium

[Nostromo]

I want to form Rome as Byzantium, what are the best idea groups for this goal.

[Narrowmind]

Diplomatic
Administrative
Influence
Religious
Trade
Quantity
Economic
Offensive

Maybe..? Anything can work. That's my shot at it.

[Mason]

Court
Aristocratic
Infrastructure
Espionage
Quantity
Expansion
Exploration
Naval

[Kapika96]

Admin, Religious, Diplo, Influ. The rest don't really matter, but I like expansion, eco, quality and offensive.

Admin is essential. If you're forming Rome you'll be conquering a LOT of land. You need admin for that, both for reducing core costs and increased gov cap. The other bonuses from it all are nice too.

Religious is fantastic. Converting conquered land quicker/cheaper to lower unrest is really good. And the CB is great to have, not many other Orthodox countries either so you can use it on pretty much everybody. With it you won't have to pay diplo points for provinces you don't have claims on, and you get 25% less AE than using the conquest CB too.

Diplo is mostly for reduced war score cost. Not as essential as admin, since early game you'll probably be constrained by AE anyway so lower war score cost won't really let you take more things (unless you're up for fighting coalitions I guess), but very useful mid-late game. Extra diplomats/relations, improve relations etc. are all good as well.

Influence mostly to make annexing vassals cheaper. Not as uesful as admin, especially if you're not using vassals much, but using vassals to help conquer/core does make things a lot easier so it's still a great idea group to get, can be left until the 3rd/4th group though.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Diplo is mostly for reduced war score cost. Not as essential as admin, since early game you'll probably be constrained by AE anyway so lower war score cost won't really let you take more things (unless you're up for fighting coalitions I guess), but very useful mid-late game. Extra diplomats/relations, improve relations etc. are all good as well.

I like your list, Kapika96, but I have a couple comments on it. First, I don't find AE constraining as Byzantium, for several reasons. First is that Byzantium can fight three different religions (Sunni, Catholic, and Orthodox) immediately. Rotating wars between them makes a big difference. Second and third are the powers of the Diplo idea group, which I always take first. The better "improve relations" modifier helps AE tick down faster (especially in combination with an "improve relations" diplo advisor, my favorite type). And the extra diplomats you get from the Diplo group should be put to work constantly improving relations with potential coalition enemies so that they never form.

Influence mostly to make annexing vassals cheaper. Not as uesful as admin, especially if you're not using vassals much, but using vassals to help conquer/core does make things a lot easier so it's still a great idea group to get, can be left until the 3rd/4th group though.

3rd or 4th is fine, yes. That's when I take it, too. But Byzantium has a very long list of potentially great vassals, especially given their special pronoia type: Bulgaria, Eretna, Karaman, Syria, Iraq, the former Timurid vassals (if they get integrated), the Timurids themselves (if the Timmies die), Tlemcen, Leon, Galicia, Catalonia and/or Aragon, Gascony, Toulouse, potentially Balkan nations like Serbia if they are destroyed early, Kazakh, and many more. Vassals should play a big role in Byzantine expansion in any run, Rome or otherwise.

So my list is either Diplo, Admin, Influence, Religious or Diplo, Admin, Religious, Influence. Diplo is my favorite idea group, and besides, I don't like to start with an Admin group. It's better to use those points to quickly get to Admin Tech 7 (to unlock both your second idea group and workshops). Tech 7 is when I grab Admin.

[RCMidas]

Notably, the integration costs of Byzantium, provided you have the King of Kings DLC, are almost rendered obsolete now by the use of their pronoiars. Release a vassal as an OPM, make them a pronoiar, fight a reconquest war for all their lost cores, retract their hereditary rights at some point, and integrate them for free when their ruler dies.

Their mission tree even lets you have your pronoiars be automatically non-hereditary, so you can make your released OPM a pronoiar right before you declare for their cores, and you'll inherit them a few years later with no issues whatsoever. It's almost as ridiculous as the Ottoman Eyalets, which you can functionally have an unlimited number of, but just in a different direction.

So for Byzantium now, going Diplomatic and Administrative are really good, then Influence is really only for if are playing the Christian PU game with Russia or Spain or Burgundian-Inheritance-Austrohungary. May as well pick up Religious at Tech10 instead for Deus Vult into the farthest east.

[Ratio decidendi]

Diplomatic, Religious, Influence, Administrative, Offensive - in such order.
Even if you're playing very casually, you should be able to form Rome by this point. Byz in 1.37 becomes so easy once you figure out the start.