Technology Spread

[Moose!]

I've been wanting to get back into this. But has the technology spread been fixed? Last time I played this game I recalled seeing Central Africa, India, and Asia competing with the western powers on tech by the year 1750s.

[Narrowmind]

Thank you for reading. I also agree with you. What Hoi offers is brilliant, but Hoi4 is a shorter game covering relatively few years. I think Paradox regrets having so many starting dates since they stopped supporting them.

Maybe there's a position in between, because the grind to become more westernized as an American doesn't seem realistic either, to be able to field cannons after a handful of years neighboring a European nation. I mean, they hadn't even seen steel swords by the first landfalls.

You mentioned India earlier, too. If you weren't playing the Ottomans or some other major Arabian power, and you weren't playing Portugal, how many years do you think would be fair before the tech spread throughout India? Because India has the same exposure and much more of it by the time another nation gets around to India, but you felt it was much too soon. That's why I thought you didn't appreciate America either. What's the difference between spread from Portugal through India, and spread through America? Why is India more unrealistic?

[alex010300]

In the old versions of EU4 there is actually a penalty to tech the more east you go like eastern tech is +60% to advance tech over western Europe until you westernization.

Later on they decided that westernization just to get 0% tech penalty with all the mishaps and rebellions doesn't make sense because that should only came up in the Victoria games. So now we have the current format.

However I do agree that the spreading of technology should be in line with how developed the territories are. Like it doesn't make sense that Africa with poor development should know how to build the printing press. However It does make sense for Ming China because of their high development cities and ports.

[Big Moustache]

Originally posted by alex010300:

In the old versions of EU4 there is actually a penalty to tech the more east you go like eastern tech is +60% to advance tech over western Europe until you westernization.

Later on they decided that westernization just to get 0% tech penalty with all the mishaps and rebellions doesn't make sense because that should only came up in the Victoria games. So now we have the current format.

However I do agree that the spreading of technology should be in line with how developed the territories are. Like it doesn't make sense that Africa with poor development should know how to build the printing press. However It does make sense for Ming China because of their high development cities and ports.

My last game as Ming. I could embrace institutions faster than my Indian neighbours. But Korea is always faster than me with less. I had 12 universities spread out over the country. Beiying, Canton and a couple other provinces where developed to 60, turned into metropoles and expanded infrastructure. Than i use the edict to increase institution spread. And great monument T3 to increase it also. Imust have dumped a total of a million manpower into this to have it ready.

Than comes the moment of embracing... only cost 8000 gold... if i waited for more spreading the price even increased!

[Moose!]

After doing some research of my own, I found some decent mods on the workshop page that changes the way technology spreads. Thank god for mods!

[Narrowmind]

I'm very thankful about that. Please enjoy your campaigns, and may your conquests be glorious.

[Moose!]

And yours as well!

[alex010300]

Originally posted by Fragoos:

Originally posted by alex010300:

In the old versions of EU4 there is actually a penalty to tech the more east you go like eastern tech is +60% to advance tech over western Europe until you westernization.

Later on they decided that westernization just to get 0% tech penalty with all the mishaps and rebellions doesn't make sense because that should only came up in the Victoria games. So now we have the current format.

However I do agree that the spreading of technology should be in line with how developed the territories are. Like it doesn't make sense that Africa with poor development should know how to build the printing press. However It does make sense for Ming China because of their high development cities and ports.

My last game as Ming. I could embrace institutions faster than my Indian neighbours. But Korea is always faster than me with less. I had 12 universities spread out over the country. Beiying, Canton and a couple other provinces where developed to 60, turned into metropoles and expanded infrastructure. Than i use the edict to increase institution spread. And great monument T3 to increase it also. Imust have dumped a total of a million manpower into this to have it ready.

Than comes the moment of embracing... only cost 8000 gold... if i waited for more spreading the price even increased!

Not really a problem, just conquer Korea and use the fund education centers option in the Mandate of heaven. They really Buff Ming from the latest DLCs.

[Big Moustache]

I do not have those dlc. I quit purchasing game updates years ago

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by Sharpie The Dergun:

Originally posted by D-Black Catto:

in eu3 countries outside europe had maluses to tech and would always lag behind, the result were fans crying about not being able to do their alt history sandbox and europocentrism(in a game called europa universalis, nonetheless) so the devs went the opposite direction

The biggest problem is power creep. Especially during the 1600's when every AI has built everything possible and is saving tens of thousands of ducats. This is less of an institution issue and more of a DLC'ify and overpower parts of the world in order to make them interesting for consumers. Compared to ten years ago, you never had power projection, you never had level 5 advisors, you never had a development system, I could go on.

Defintely not an institution problem, but a corporate problem.

You got it almost right. Mana was intended to decrease the power creep of the snowball effect, but what happened is that we got more sources of it. It used to be that if you had a crappy heir you tried to kill him one way or another. Today you can disinherit him. Chances are you will get a decent one after a short time. When you had no heir you had to face potential threats of PU and rebels. Today? Click the button, you will get an heir. And he will likely be decent.

Used to be that crappy leaders with less than 6 stats total were not uncommon. Today it is uncommon. And on it goes. Then you have power projection - another source of free mana. Who can easily keep PP up? Of course, powerful nations. Who can easily hire high-rank advisors? Powerful nations. And so we got the snowball back. Then you add all those dev cost reductions and suddenly by mid-1500s you may have more mana than you can spend it normally - so you dev up provinces. What is the end result? Power creep.

Then you have missions. Just look at the Lithuanian mission that gives you +1 production in every province with a manufacture. You can easily fund this after the Age of Discovery ends and you and your allies are tech 10 simply by "loaning" the money from Ottomans. Then you use that money to build up manufactures everywhere. Oh, they not only increase production revenue. They also improve trade revenue. Oh, and they make workshops profitable everywhere. Or that mission that gives you a permanent +25 power projection. As long as you are the 1st great power you will have +50 PP, and hence free mana each month. Admittedly, it requires you to conquer Poland, which is likely not the best choice in the early game (they make a good ally for scaring Ottomans, just disable participating in offensive wars). Or improving a national idea so that it also gives dev cost reduction. (aristocratic, infrastructure, national idea, loyal influential burgers, edict, and suddenly you are looking at 40% dev cost reduction after tech 11 hits; chances are you will also have innovativeness and some other bonuses to increase it even more - leading to "wide tall play"). And this is not an exception - much of power creep comes from missions.

[Big Moustache]

You can have high power projection with small nations too. Instead of conquering, humiliate rivals

[Narrowmind]

Try supporting rebels. Thank me later.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by Fragoos:

You can have high power projection with small nations too. Instead of conquering, humiliate rivals

Is it though? You would be spending plenty of manpower on winning a war just to get a humiliation? Show power could make sense, but humiliation? Especially when you can easily use that WS to expand instead.

Not that I don't humiliate my rivals, but when my rivals are limited to France and Ottomans then humiliation is not of much value.

[darkestkhan]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Try supporting rebels. Thank me later.

I have not tried supporting rebels for a while now, but the last time I did the result was mediocre at best. Not worth the cost.

[Big Moustache]

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Originally posted by Fragoos:

You can have high power projection with small nations too. Instead of conquering, humiliate rivals

Is it though? You would be spending plenty of manpower on winning a war just to get a humiliation? Show power could make sense, but humiliation? Especially when you can easily use that WS to expand instead.

Not that I don't humiliate my rivals, but when my rivals are limited to France and Ottomans then humiliation is not of much value.

It is. Powerprojection over 50 increases all mana gain by one. And it pays 100 of each mana on completion of war. It also lowers Your French and Ottoman rivals prestige and power projection

[Narrowmind]

Originally posted by darkestkhan:

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Try supporting rebels. Thank me later.

I have not tried supporting rebels for a while now, but the last time I did the result was mediocre at best. Not worth the cost.

You pay like a year or income, and you can get up to 50 power projection from it from each rival. That is more cost effective than level 1 advisors. That's one of the cheapest ways to get pp in the game, and you can do it as anyone. I encourage you to try it again. Someone like the Knights can have easy power projection.