Tinto Talks

[Marquoz]

Johan is posting a series of Dev Diaries for an upcoming Paradox game on the official boards. The link to the second is here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-2-march-6th-2024.1626415/

The game's code name is Project Caesar, but that doesn't mean it is related to Rome. Paradox has an old tradition of code-naming games under development after various Emperors.

You'll note that the map screenshots have a global scope. Tinto definitely isn't making HOI5 or Victoria 4, and the CK series isn't global, so I think EU5 is by far the most likely candidate. But a brand-new title can't be ruled out.

[Narrowmind]

Eventually, but they really need YEARS between release and the last dlc. I think Eu4 is so huge that unless 5 is also huge, or a radical departure in look and performance from 4, the way Ck3 compares with Ck2, I just couldn't see a huge adoption right away. 2 years minimum, best 3. Any sooner than that and I would expect a separate title. But full abandonment of the series? Not going to happen.

[Octopuses]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Eventually, but they really need YEARS between release and the last dlc. I think Eu4 is so huge that unless 5 is also huge, or a radical departure in look and performance from 4, the way Ck3 compares with Ck2, I just couldn't see a huge adoption right away. 2 years minimum, best 3. Any sooner than that and I would expect a separate title. But full abandonment of the series? Not going to happen.

EU4 is technically already abandoned since like just 2 people work on these DLCs. EU5 will probably be even more popular than EU4 since the age of EU4 as well as overwhelming amount of DLCs is keeping a lot of people away.

[Narrowmind]

That's true. The subscription can help alieviate, but not truly a solution for people who actually, seriously want to play 4. You have a point, agreed.

[Preacher]

Originally posted by Paul:

And they are adding slaves and population back in, which is neat. (i don't condone irl slavery, but it was definitly a thing that was done back then, so it should be allowed in games in that setting)

yes thank you for that hot take, it is such a brave statement to make in 2024

[Preacher]

The most important thing Paradox should focus on, in my opinion, is to make internal management challenging, fun, and that it balances the snowballing effect we see in EU4 and many grand strategy games.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by The Doctor:

Please note that I, personally, do not agree with what follows. :D

Europa Universalis has become a somewhat more problematic title. I'm not going to explain why because I strongly disagree with the idea but I think you know what the objections will be.

Changing the title would free the developers from the shackles of what was in EU4 at the end of 10 years of development and allow them to make a whole new game as a result. Calling it EU5 is problematic because people will want everything that EU4 has at the end of development and accuse the developers of cutting content to sell back ... blah blah blah.

Just think of the freedom they would have were they to throw out pretty much all the systems and start again.

Is this going to happen? I haven't got a clue but I'm explaining my reasoning why I think there might not be a EU5 but a whole new game instead. As far as I know, EU5 may be announced very shortly and so I can't say for certain. I won't mind if they do but I think EU5 is going to be a very difficult thing to pull off.

Skirting around the issue of why some people would object to the title, I don't think Paradox really has to worry about those people- simply on the grounds that their primary initial playerbase will be people who already play EU4, and if you're already playing a Europa Universalis game I think it's safe to assume you don't object to the title very much.

They worried about those people enough to remove a certain phrase that was problematic from CK2 for CK3 so I wouldn't be so sure that 'Europe Everywhere' is going to survive.

EU was originally a board game from a far more tolerant and sensible era than our present one.

I certainly don't object to the title very much at all - quite the opposite so I hope they'll stick with it but a whole new studio certainly provides them with an opportunity to reboot the whole thing. While I don't think this is likely either, let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if this were to happen.

[Preacher]

Originally posted by The Doctor:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Skirting around the issue of why some people would object to the title, I don't think Paradox really has to worry about those people- simply on the grounds that their primary initial playerbase will be people who already play EU4, and if you're already playing a Europa Universalis game I think it's safe to assume you don't object to the title very much.

They worried about those people enough to remove a certain phrase that was problematic from CK2 for CK3 so I wouldn't be so sure that 'Europe Everywhere' is going to survive.

EU was originally a board game from a far more tolerant and sensible era than our present one.

I certainly don't object to the title very much at all - quite the opposite so I hope they'll stick with it but a whole new studio certainly provides them with an opportunity to reboot the whole thing. While I don't think this is likely either, let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if this were to happen.

afaik "deus vult" is still in ck3, all that drama was just caused by a meddling journalist wanting views.

[Paddy]

All I hope is that Paradox don't screw this up like their most recent releases. They can't screw up EU5. There would be no way back if they did

[Marquoz]

This week's Tinto Talks is up: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-4-march-20th-2024.1636860/

Estates are confirmed, but so are new mechanics like laws, the cabinet, and societal policies.

[Narrowmind]

Do you think there is a point where Eu5 can come too close to Victoria mechanics?

[Marquoz]

Absolutely. If warfare is hands-off, I'll never buy EU5.

[fingerneun]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Absolutely. If warfare is hands-off, I'll never buy EU5.

"Project Caesar will have a warfare system that involving moving units in locations on the map."

said johan in a comment on a tinto talk

[Narrowmind]

Oh, that's great. I feel better already. ☺️ But what does it mean? Who's controlling that "system?" AI or player?

[Rialm]

Originally posted by fingerneun:

"Project Caesar will have a warfare system that involving moving units in locations on the map."
said johan in a comment on a tinto talk

not even surprise, how much time did it take for Victoria 3 to fix their combat system and to make it at least more understandable? obviously I can't ignore that chasing rats and sending a stake of man power just to die against attrition can become really shallow.

In my case, the thing I want the most is a clean UI like EU4, yes there are a bunch of buttons and some of them I've never clicked or I understood their utility after severals hours but it's quite comfortable. Victoria 3 was quite a mess during launch time, and I understand that Imperator looked awful before like an old RTS.

[Venus]

Originally posted by Chad:

Honestly the only question i have is I am not sure why they made the decision to call it Tinto talks instead of EU5 dev diary. Like their explanation was so they can talk about the development earlier without pre-conceived notions in the comments but at this point its pretty obvious.
And this is only the 4th dairy, not like 2 years of dev diaries in....
It doesn't seem that early in development either when they already have so many features to showcase. They arent in the conceptual stage anymore and have a pretty clear idea what they want to implement

They are still keeping up the charade of not explicitly calling it EU5 despite the fact that we all know it is EU5. Why are they not revealing it as EU5 yet? I can only assume maybe something to do with player expectations and comparisons to EU4, or they just want people to keep buying EU4.