Aksum or Ethiopia?

[dbond1]

Playing Ethiopia for the achievements. Have reach 1687 and have the required lands to form Aksum. I like Ethiopia's ideas just fine. But there's much to be said for flipping.

This image shows the two sets side by side.

https://i.redd.it/cdk0yub036581.jpg

I have not taken Religious, but rock four missionaries so not too worried about losing one. And if I can capture Jeruslaem I can get it back, if it still works this way.

Aksum gets a sweet -15% war score against other religions (and every nation in the world is a different religion). I really need the manpower. +15% Trade Efficiency is also strong since we have a good trade network and this would boost it significantly. The AE impact isn't really important at this stage and in this region, I don't think.

I would be giving up a number of solid ideas, like fort defense, AT, war exhaustion and autonomy. Both get discipline. I'll probably form Aksum since I may never be here again. Anyone make the switch and regret it?

Do I get western units as Aksum?

[RCMidas]

Continue down the Ethiopian mission tree (if you've got Origins DLC) and you'll get Western units that way. Becoming Aksum does nothing mechanically except offer a new set of ideas.

[dbond1]

I don't think I can. I have no cawas and they don't appear in the macro builder. Maybe I missed my chance. That is one of the pre-requisites for the Modernize the Army mission I believe.

Any idea why they don't appear in my builder? I've not noticed them at any time, but wasn't looking often it must be said. I don't know what requirements they have and maybe it's too late.

Forming Aksum also changes form of government and moves my capital, in addition to the new idea set, correct? And maybe I lose the -75% move capital action cost.

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by dbond1:

Forming Aksum also changes form of government and moves my capital, in addition to the new idea set, correct? And maybe I lose the -75% move capital action cost.

Forming Aksum only changes your ideas(if you want to), but it doesn't move your capital and it doesn't change your government. And it does not prevent you from having Cawa. The cawa and capital movement cost are tied to your government reforms. Which tier 1 reform do you have? The mission centralize the state gives you the option to switch to the reform "Solomonic Empire" which has cawa, but doesn't have the itinerant capital. But these reforms are not locked, so you could switch in and out of them.
The wiki lists additional reforms which unlock cawa: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Army#Cawa

Or are you maybe playing without the Origins DLC? Then will neither have cawa nor the mission which gives you western troops

[dbond1]

OK, good thanks very much. I'll have a look when I fire it up again. I did look through reforms last night trying to see which one might enable cawas, but if it's there, it evaded me. Maybe I just picked the wrong one, not realizing cawas were a thing.

Wiki says capital gets moved but yeah, maybe not.

I have all expansions currently enabled.

I assume western units are superior to east african, yes? Is there diminishing returns? I'm just about to 1700 and maybe there's a convergence.

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by dbond1:

Wiki says capital gets moved but yeah, maybe not.

Oh, I looked in the wrong file. If you form Aksum via the decision, the capital gets moved. But if you form it via the mission event, it doesn't get moved

Originally posted by dbond1:

I assume western units are superior to east african, yes? Is there diminishing returns? I'm just about to 1700 and maybe there's a convergence.

In the early game, african units have more pips. Western units have a few more pips from about tech 19 onwards. But the impact of pips isn't that big. Many players overestimate their impact

[dbond1]

Yes, this will be by decision. Thanks for the info, very helpful.

[dbond1]

I have a different mission tree than what is on the wiki. Maybe I'm missing an immersion pack or something. There's no Modernize the Army mission, no Raise the Cawas. Looks completely different.

No matter, but I could use every edge I can get for the showdown with Ottomans. Flipped to Aksum, cause why not. Needed the manpower and the map color is nice. Capital moved, but with the 75% discount to move it I moved it right back.

Wonder what I am missing. The Ethiopia mission tree on the wiki is current I would imagine, so my install is missing something I guess. No western units for this run then.

[RCMidas]

"Origins" is the name of the DLC in question. Does a fair bit for major African contenders of the time - Mali, Songhai, Kilwa, Ethiopia, Adal.

[dbond1]

I was confident I had all the expansions, but I guess not. Too bad, I would have gotten it had I been paying closer attention, and would have spiced this run up, probably. But maybe something would have been made more difficult too. Thanks for the info.

[Mr.M]

If you are a fast conqueror, Aksums ideas are better

If you arent that fast, Ethiopians are better

Originally posted by grotaclas:

But the impact of pips isn't that big. Many players overestimate their impact

Could you elaborate on that. From my understanding an additional shock pip on infantry is like an extra shock pip from a general.

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by Mr.M:

Originally posted by grotaclas:

But the impact of pips isn't that big. Many players overestimate their impact

Could you elaborate on that. From my understanding an additional shock pip on infantry is like an extra shock pip from a general.

It works a little different, but I agree that the impact is comparable. But one general pip doesn't have such a big impact either. And the difference between the unit types is usually only one or two pips.

[dbond1]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. Managed to get both achievements by 1764.

We struck Ottos twice, and essentially carved them up in to three pieces. We had been in limbo for fifty years, as all of my allies showed red Xs due to debt. Ottomans would not declare on me, which is what I needed, in order to make it a defensive war. My allies were Gujarat, France, Portugal and Russia. I went over the dip limit and added Commonwealth later. I had ditched Castile earlier. They were cursed this run. And as you can see they are nearly gone from Europe. A far cry from the dominant Spain they usually become. Shows how variable this game can be. I felt bad to cast them out, but they were an anchor on my plans and had to go.

The first war against Ottos was a proxy war through Tunis. I could get Gujarat to join this war, but they would not join a direct war on Ottomans due to opinion of enemies. This war was massive, and risky, but by 1730 I was thinking I had better get a move on, now or never, if I was to hit my objectives before time ran out. From this Tunisian war we were able to take the Syrian coast and Antioch, and just kept going, occupying Anatolia and sniping Constantinople! ! I had not expected to be able to get this in the first war, and that is a huge hit to Ottomans, to lose their capital, and probably the finest city in the world. Constantinople is an obsession of mine in EU IV. In any run I think of how I might grab it, but usually it's unwise. But as Aksum, it is ours.

When the truce ticked off, we struck again, this time with France on our side and ripped them apart. Cut a swath to the Black Sea, grabbing the final holy site to get the Blessed Nation achievement for being Coptic and holding all five sites.

Idea groups are Quality, Maritime, Administrative, Quantity, Espionage, Economic and Offensive so far.

Quality first since Ethiopia starts with both a strong army and navy, and this group buffs both. Maritime allowed us to eventually eclipse Ottoman on the seas. Quantity was needed to expand our force limits and give me a boost to manpower, which was a weakness. Admin was great to cut expansion costs. Espionage was great too, allowing faster claims, cheaper covert actions and conducting counter-espionage on Ottomans. Espionage is now so much better than it used to be. We kept discovering their agents and preventing them from sowing discontent, slandering merchants and all the little ways they can undermine you on the sly. Economic helped keep inflation in check, as we make a lot of money from gold mines, and also boosted our already robust economy. Offensive dovetailed nicely with the late game, as this combined with high tradition is popping three-stars left and right.

Here's the geo-political in 1764. Usually I'd call time with all objectives in the bag but I'll keep going for a bit and see if we can clean up some of the gore and make Aksum a truly glorious empire.

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/46399/filename/Aksum1764.jpg

[Narrowmind]

Wonderful work, here. Yeah, at least take Arabia on your cleanup project.

[dbond1]

Thanks, yes, I'd like to clean up Arabia and Anatolia if I can. Ottomans have been eclipsed. On the Paradox forum I have a thread asking about any possible ways I might undermine Ottos, how to cut off their tree and that sort of stuff. How to encourage their disasters. Not sure what I might have done that would chop them off at the knees, but taking Egypt first had to hurt them.

At no point did I ever see a eyalet, aside from just now in the Venice region. But I gave some to France last war. Around 1760 Ottos got two events, one of which is a pasha independence event, and now all of their provinces have unrest. Rebels should start popping, and with their lands cut in three they may have trouble dealing with it. I stand ready to snipe any nation that pops out with no allies.

Even if no nations re-form, rebels will keep Ottos on the back foot until our truce is over.

[dbond1]

The end of my run was fouled by a mischievous Great Britain, so in the end not quite as good as it could have been, but we were able to clean up some of the gore, lock down Arabia and Anatolia, and were heading off through the Balkans when I called time.

Ethiopia in to Aksum is a strong run. Fantastic economy, a nice regional trade node configuration and vulnerable neighbors. Mamluks and Ottos loom on the horizon, and I know many players like to hit Mammies as soon as possible, often during their first war with Ottomans to step in to that void. I took a different tack, sweeping up the horn first, then down the coast to claim the Zanzibar region (which became my collection node) and grab more gold mines, and across the Gate of Tears to start taking the Arabian coast.

This left Mamluks boxed in and unable to expand farther, allowing us to reach parity as we had no such restrictions to expansion. With Egypt locked down and denied to Ottomans we slowly expanded in to west Africa and Tunisia, and eventually to a series with wars with Ottomans, who were very strong. We managed to win these wars and in the end hit all of our goals.

I said above that I took quality since Ethiopia starts with a strong army and navy, but of course that is not true, we had no coastal tiles at the start. But you get there so quickly (probably) that it feels like you have a navy from the off.

I did not end up regretting switching tags, to answer my own question from before. The timing of the move synergized with our transition from a regional power to a world power, and as Mr M said above, Aksum's ideas are good for expansion. The map color is very nice, and the shorter the nation's name, the bigger it appears on the map, which has value right there haha.

Thanks for the help and advice. Had a great time with this run.

Here's the geo-political in 1810. Allies at the end were Portugal, Commonwealth, France, Gujarat and Russia.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3155217268