My Riga has no path to survival

[Njorl]

I have tried 4 times to play Riga. and it's hopeless. I look at the mission tree and salivate, but they can not survive.

Every game is the same. I can ally Wolgast, which isn't much help. I can ally Livonian Order, which is counterproductive. I max out relations, take the Religious Diplomats policy and still I can't come within 30 points of being able to ally anyone, let alone Poland, Muscovy, Denmark or Austria - which is what people in the various guides say to do. In the videos I watch, the alliances are just available. People don't even work for them. They just send a diplomat an voila - ana lliance! I can't even ally Lubeck. I don't understand it.

Furthermore, even though I get into the Empire, the emperor is worthless. By 1450, it's never Austria. 3 times now Hesse has become Emperor and held it. Their allies are all insignificant. The imperial protection is essentially nothing. In the fourth game, Bohemia was emperor and refused to defend me.

So, by 1465, Muscovy is declaring war on me (if I haven't vassalized Livonia) or my Livonian order Vassal. It's impossible to vassalize the Teuts because they are completely gone before 1460. I have only Wolgast as an ally, the emperor chickens out or provides no help, and the trade league I'm in does not join the war (which I didn't even think was possible.) I can't make Muscovy friendly, they just tic the box marked "hostile" and there's no way to convince them not to attack me. They have no enemies. They have rivals, but in name only.

I'm not an inexperienced player. I've conquered Spain as the Incas, I've started as a variety of other OPMs which look weaker than Riga and become the 1st great power and 1st place in score without much difficulty.

What is going on?

[Sharpie The Dragon]

What’s your goal? Riga is generally designed around a diverse, tall mission tree. To expand, I would still go for conquest of Livonian Order and ally whoever I can (usually German minors) this tends to be enough to hold off major powers while you develop and grow your power base

[Mechenyi]

Are you making sure you're utilizing your own attitudes towards your potential allies' rivals? sometimes a threatened attitude towards a country's rival is all it takes to secure an alliance. Muscovy is usually a fairly easy ally to get as a baltic tag because the danes and poles almost always want your land, and are also usually rivaled by muscovy.

Also I haven't really looked into their mission tree, but I'm not sure why you'd be vassalizing either of the orders? The only vassal I'd consider taking in the area would be lubeck for trade, but that's about it.

Personally, I'd say Riga is in a pretty strong position, because they border(or nearly) four easily conquerable tags that hate each other and usually go to war, have access to fairly weak, north German rivals to abuse for mana+PP, and you can get decent income from trade pretty quick.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Njorl:

I max out relations, take the Religious Diplomats policy and still I can't come within 30 points of being able to ally anyone, let alone Poland, Muscovy, Denmark or Austria - which is what people in the various guides say to do.

I did my Riga achievement run when the patch adding it was released. The game has changed since then, so perhaps this strategy no longer works. That's a common occurrence in EU4, and one way to get around it is to roll the game back to that version.

Anyway, the only major ally I could get early was Denmark. I used the "threatened" tactic Mechenyi mentions, improved relations from Day 1, and was able to land them fairly early. It was a brief alliance, though. Denmark soon gets claims on the entire Livonia region, and when it does, it's likely to break the alliance.

However, it lasted long enough for me to use them in one war, against the Livonian and Teutonic Orders. After that war, I was strong enough to ally a couple great powers. I think my choices were Austria and either Muscovy or Poland, but it's been long enough I no longer remember. From there, things were simple--the usual dance of alliance and betrayal needed to finish off the achievement.

[Njorl]

Thanks for the replies. I had never seen the "threatened attitude" tactic used before. I've never needed it. I'll give it a try.

[Triple G]

You can also scornfully insult the rivals. But as for Muscovy - they will rather fast have like -200 opinion of You, because they want Riga, and every province of the Livonian Order (which would probably be reduced if they´re Your ally), which You probably have as a subject. I for myself didn´t ally Muscovy, but didn´t rival them either. You can have a trade league as leader, Livionian Order as subject, and 2 allies by default. Getting the teutonic order completely as a subject works, but it creates so much ae, that all of northern and the eastern hre - including Poland will form a coalition, and they will attack. If You want to do that, You´d probably need to ally Poland and Bohemia, and hope for the best.

Then it depends a bit on the TO event - but probably You will have to fight Poland sooner or later - even more as as You need some Lithuanian provinces anyways for the achievement.

I for myself allied Bohemia, which is also emperor. And Brandenburg. I could also have allied Austria. Or i could also have allied Denmark, but they still have provinces in Russia, and a weak alliance. And this should be enough that nobody attacks You. Including some trade league members of course, which also raise Your force limit and manpower.

Just saying, because i´m doing a Riga game myself atm, but i´m not very far, as i now need to wait that Poland gets involved in any war, as they´re also allied to Sweden - to revive the Teutonic Order. I personally only want Riga as own province. My hope is that either the Ottomans attack Poland, or Muscovy attacks Sweden. Else i need to wait a bit till i can build a barrack, as this gives +20 force limit with the mission, but my leaders all got 0 military skill. Then i could attack them myself with favors to call the allies in. And having like 40k units as one province nation is pretty neat...

[Bird the III]

arumba and Budget monk had some riga runs on VH on twich about 2 months ago. they had several successful starts

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1959394735?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1853938379?filter=all&sort=time

my current run
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3111432898

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3111432669

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Njorl:

Thanks for the replies. I had never seen the "threatened attitude" tactic used before. I've never needed it. I'll give it a try.

Every tool in the game exists for a reason. I first started changing my attitude to threatened in Byzantium runs many years ago to help me get alliances with powerful Ottoman rivals. It's a useful strategy for any small nation that needs major help to survive the early game. Other potentially helpful boosts can be provided by targeted insults, gifts, granting military access, and so on. EU4's diplomacy toolkit is large and powreful, but most players don't make full use of it.

[red1]

Because of this thread, I am doing a Riga Run (w/ LOTN). bad luck, I wasn't able to vassel TO and LO. Instead I went for Dev the City of Riga, and not have a 23 army stack, and 49 naval, with a monthly income of 17+ in 1480s...Just waiting for the big elephants to dance and then pick my spot to attack.

[red1]

Also, Riga is not hopeless from an Ally standpoint, you start with the Hansa Trade League for defense, and easy to get admitted to the HRE. My allies are Bohemia, Brandenburg, Wolgast. These can vary depending upon you is rivaled with who. But, you should be able to get 3 allies early, Enough to not get attacked by Poland/Russia

The point earlier about designating countries as threatening is useful to get allies where those countries are rivals of the country you want to ally.

Btw, I peaced out my sub war against TO, just bad luck of the dice. But haven't given up...

[Preacher]

Ignore mission tree and dont get railroaded by it

[red1]

One final update on my latest Riga effort. A couple of things didn't go my way early on. Poland allied LO even though they had claims on all their provinces. The Ottomans never attacked Poland/Commonwealth or Russia until the late 1500s. Both sat out the Religious War. It is now the early 1600s and I have two stacks of 38K and a navy that is 105 vessels strong. I just retook all the Baltic provinces, I kept 4 including Reveal and fed the rest to my vassal LO. Not my best effort playing Riga. In the past, I have counted on The Ottomans to attack Poland early and often in order for me to get the TO lands, but didn't happen this time. My usual goal is to only own 5 of the 6 Baltic trade provinces - Riga, Reveal, Gdansk, Stockholm or Konigsberg , and Gotland, with surrounding lands to my vassals. You only want 5 max provinces or you lose the effects of the Dev Riga event.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by red1:

You only want 5 max provinces or you lose the effects of the Dev Riga event.

That's not entirely true. Unless they've changed things recently, the limit is 5 max provinces in Europe. Colonial nations don't count, and neither do TCs or states in Africa and Asia. Riga can grow quite large--but only overseas.

[RCMidas]

Wait, seriously? They overlooked that as a loophole? *snirk* That's so incredibly open to shenanigans now...

[Marquoz]

I think it's deliberate, actually. Coding a global 5 province limit would have been easier than coding one that has to check their locations to see if they count or not.

[red1]

All I know, the last time I set up a trade company, I lost the Riga buff.. Feature or Bug?