Automation update

[Demien]

I would literally pay 30€ or more for an automation update. There is so many nations and scenarios I would like to play but mid to end game is unbearable for all the micro managament we have to do and I end up giving up almost always. I would trade efficiency for an automation of any sort like:
- give the AI control over my armies for a war. Auto-siege feature is meh
- auto select events' decisions(for example I always quarantine when there is an epidemic)
- auto-colonization with armies defending from natives. Something like the auto-conversion we got now but selecting whole regions and assign armies to them
- diplomats switching to another group of improve relations if the one they are assigned to is done. More than once I had them stop doing their work because there was no targe
- better rebels mechanic with large empires. Yes, we have army marching automatically to deal with rebels but I feel that late games, even with unrest modifiers, I should not worry about 6k idiots popping up on an island on the other side of the world. I would love to have all the rebels contribute to some sort of BIG rebellion event that I can deal with decisions or an actual civil war. Current mechanic is just an annoyance at most
- ships merging for war and auto-splitting to old assigned trade nodes after it. Let them hide all the war seems pretty lame and a waste of resources
- auto-claims on neighbours
I want to hear everyone opinion on this. I know almost everyone drop by 1600-1650 their games and no really play the revolution part(like it matters when you blobbed to death).

[RCMidas]

The more automation you give away, the more you will be effectively watching the AI play with itself whilst you click a few buttons. The Victoria 3 experience, basically.

What exactly would you have left to do with most of the automation you propose being implemented? You aren't controlling your armies, you aren't making event choices, you aren't using your envoys, you aren't engaging with diplomacy...

You're going to sit there, waiting until someone (maybe even yourself) declares war, and then sit there waiting until the war is over - with the famously capable AI doing all the work - and every half hour or so you get to click the button to advance technology or an idea group.

Presumably you can automate that as well. I'm being snide. Of course you can automate that as well. You can set it up so that your nation picks the same idea groups as you would at the same time.

What you're looking at here, my lad, is you starting a game and using the Spectator console command to watch the AI do whatever it wants. Because that's the only thing you'll be getting out of this with the automation you suggest, and not even any of my extrapolations.

[Demien]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

The more automation you give away, the more you will be effectively watching the AI play with itself whilst you click a few buttons. The Victoria 3 experience, basically.

What exactly would you have left to do with most of the automation you propose being implemented? You aren't controlling your armies, you aren't making event choices, you aren't using your envoys, you aren't engaging with diplomacy...

You're going to sit there, waiting until someone (maybe even yourself) declares war, and then sit there waiting until the war is over - with the famously capable AI doing all the work - and every half hour or so you get to click the button to advance technology or an idea group.

Presumably you can automate that as well. I'm being snide. Of course you can automate that as well. You can set it up so that your nation picks the same idea groups as you would at the same time.

What you're looking at here, my lad, is you starting a game and using the Spectator console command to watch the AI do whatever it wants. Because that's the only thing you'll be getting out of this with the automation you suggest, and not even any of my extrapolations.

My suggestions are far away from an idle game that you are describing. I will still decide who to declare war to, allies, were to spend monarch points, not to mention another billion mechanics like parlaments decisions, govenment reforms, ideas, etc. That's what strategy is. This is a grand strategy game not a micro managing festival. And this is what is at the beginning of the game but having the same mechanics repeated for so many hours it's tedious and not fun. You want to see how all your decisions play it out. That's the best feeling. Or are you saying that you feel good managing 15 stacks of 30k troops all around the globe?

[RCMidas]

15 stacks is far too few if you're fighting all over the world. That's barely 450K troops, and you want upwards of a million minimum just for security. Then you're looking at your navy, trade companies, colonial issues, and all the rest of it.

Warfare being such a huge part of the game will only end in tears if you hand over control to the AI. You ever notice how bad your allies are at doing what you want them to during war? Well, now that's YOUR army doing that badly. You ever notice how crap the AI is at managing navies? Well, now that's YOUR navy doing that badly.

More and more automation in a game like this is, to put it bluntly, lazy. The automated missionaries of last update are not the worst, but you will still need to micromanage them to get the best results - dealing with the Reformation, for instance, you DO NOT want them to work on the provinces that can be converted the quickest, but those with hostile Centres of Reformation.

A recent dev diary showcased a mod for automatic colonisation. Very clever. Very lazy. Those colonists will move according to principles set down before the game begins, and will not respond as intelligently as a player to its evolution. Maybe that automation will send a colonist to a province I don't need to worry about, because my junior partner Portugal will be able to grab it in a few more months and my colonist would be better served going elsewhere, to give but a single example.

This game benefits from less automation. Willingly giving up your agency so that you don't have to think so much in a game of this kind? What's the point? What's the rush? Set the game to speed 1 or 2, take a couple of Real-Life months per war, and develop your capacity for long-term focus and planning.

[Tungdil12]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

15 stacks is far too few if you're fighting all over the world. That's barely 450K troops, and you want upwards of a million minimum just for security. Then you're looking at your navy, trade companies, colonial issues, and all the rest of it.

Warfare being such a huge part of the game will only end in tears if you hand over control to the AI. You ever notice how bad your allies are at doing what you want them to during war? Well, now that's YOUR army doing that badly. You ever notice how crap the AI is at managing navies? Well, now that's YOUR navy doing that badly.

More and more automation in a game like this is, to put it bluntly, lazy. The automated missionaries of last update are not the worst, but you will still need to micromanage them to get the best results - dealing with the Reformation, for instance, you DO NOT want them to work on the provinces that can be converted the quickest, but those with hostile Centres of Reformation.

A recent dev diary showcased a mod for automatic colonisation. Very clever. Very lazy. Those colonists will move according to principles set down before the game begins, and will not respond as intelligently as a player to its evolution. Maybe that automation will send a colonist to a province I don't need to worry about, because my junior partner Portugal will be able to grab it in a few more months and my colonist would be better served going elsewhere, to give but a single example.

This game benefits from less automation. Willingly giving up your agency so that you don't have to think so much in a game of this kind? What's the point? What's the rush? Set the game to speed 1 or 2, take a couple of Real-Life months per war, and develop your capacity for long-term focus and planning.

I dont really get your point here, you are never forced to use automation features. If you dont want to use them dont use them.
But if the op wants to give 100 k of his armies to the ai to have them fight a war against an enemy with 10 k troops let him do that.
What even are you arguing here for?

I am sure there are a lot of people that loved the new missionary automation and some more automation in other categories would probably also be well received. You dont need to use it if you dont want to after all.

[Demien]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

15 stacks is far too few if you're fighting all over the world. That's barely 450K troops, and you want upwards of a million minimum just for security. Then you're looking at your navy, trade companies, colonial issues, and all the rest of it.

Warfare being such a huge part of the game will only end in tears if you hand over control to the AI. You ever notice how bad your allies are at doing what you want them to during war? Well, now that's YOUR army doing that badly. You ever notice how crap the AI is at managing navies? Well, now that's YOUR navy doing that badly.

More and more automation in a game like this is, to put it bluntly, lazy. The automated missionaries of last update are not the worst, but you will still need to micromanage them to get the best results - dealing with the Reformation, for instance, you DO NOT want them to work on the provinces that can be converted the quickest, but those with hostile Centres of Reformation.

A recent dev diary showcased a mod for automatic colonisation. Very clever. Very lazy. Those colonists will move according to principles set down before the game begins, and will not respond as intelligently as a player to its evolution. Maybe that automation will send a colonist to a province I don't need to worry about, because my junior partner Portugal will be able to grab it in a few more months and my colonist would be better served going elsewhere, to give but a single example.

This game benefits from less automation. Willingly giving up your agency so that you don't have to think so much in a game of this kind? What's the point? What's the rush? Set the game to speed 1 or 2, take a couple of Real-Life months per war, and develop your capacity for long-term focus and planning.

"15 stacks is far too few if you're fighting all over the world." tell that to all colonizers. You can fight in multiple parts of the world and still have fewer troops than this. Seriously I don't even understand why you mentioned this.
Regarding the AI I'm ready to take the gamble at some points. Especially if I'm fighting multiple small enemies like natives nations.
"Lazy"? Yes, of course. Games are supposed to be fun, not a job. Unless they are intended like that by game design like "Papers, please". I have fun with EU4 but my are suggestions to make the game even more fun, especially late game.
To be honest you seems like a perfectionist. I tend to do that too but it's better to finish a game not perfectly than just starting multiple perfect ones. But hey, it's a matter of taste.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Demien:

I want to hear everyone opinion on this.

My opinion is that I would never use these features if they were optional and that I would quit the game forever if they weren't. The key to my success at EU4 is that I'm better than the AI at literally everything. I'll never give up that edge. In addition, if I want to watch the AI play itself, I can do a hands-off run. Your version of the "game" would be boring beyond belief.

[QTV]

Why not just play the game differently, instead of complaining about the things you don't want to do yourself.

[Demien]

Originally posted by QTV:

Why not just play the game differently, instead of complaining about the things you don't want to do yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Demien]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by Demien:

I want to hear everyone opinion on this.

My opinion is that I would never use these features if they were optional and that I would quit the game forever if they weren't. The key to my success at EU4 is that I'm better than the AI at literally everything. I'll never give up that edge. In addition, if I want to watch the AI play itself, I can do a hands-off run. Your version of the "game" would be boring beyond belief.

I respect your opinion but how is "not boring" to click on the same stuff over and over without putting any effort in it? Do you feel smart crushing 10k rebels with your 30k stack? I'm just saying I like the challenging part of EU4 and we could use some automation on the boring no-brain stuff.

[QTV]

Originally posted by Demien:

Originally posted by QTV:

Why not just play the game differently, instead of complaining about the things you don't want to do yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean.

If you don't like crushing rebels because it is boring and tedious, then just make a country that doesn't get rebels.

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by Demien:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

My opinion is that I would never use these features if they were optional and that I would quit the game forever if they weren't. The key to my success at EU4 is that I'm better than the AI at literally everything. I'll never give up that edge. In addition, if I want to watch the AI play itself, I can do a hands-off run. Your version of the "game" would be boring beyond belief.

I respect your opinion but how is "not boring" to click on the same stuff over and over without putting any effort in it? Do you feel smart crushing 10k rebels with your 30k stack? I'm just saying I like the challenging part of EU4 and we could use some automation on the boring no-brain stuff.

But...that's what you're asking for. You're still clicking on the same stuff over and over, but now you're clicking on slightly less of the same stuff and by doing so putting less effort into it! That's what automation does!

I'm now totally lost with what you actually want out of this.

EDIT: You know what, I think I'm going to default to: "I'm too old to receive what you're trying to transmit".

[quadrazza]

The truth is that paradox fans are ten times more masochistics then the most masochist fan base on earth (Dark Souls' fans).
There isn't a single reason for not having an OPTIONAL automation system during paradox grand strategy end game. EU4 endgame is a delirium of micromanaging, and the paradox (lol) is that the final part of the game - where you are tipically ready for snowballing everything - is the slower. Even the game itself shows his lower propension for the endgame stage, which is in fact a lag fest.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Demien:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

My opinion is that I would never use these features if they were optional and that I would quit the game forever if they weren't. The key to my success at EU4 is that I'm better than the AI at literally everything. I'll never give up that edge. In addition, if I want to watch the AI play itself, I can do a hands-off run. Your version of the "game" would be boring beyond belief.

I respect your opinion but how is "not boring" to click on the same stuff over and over without putting any effort in it?

"Effort" is exactly what I put into it. Effort and the underlying thought are why I excel at this game.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Demien:

Do you feel smart crushing 10k rebels with your 30k stack? I'm just saying I like the challenging part of EU4 and we could use some automation on the boring no-brain stuff.

Yes, because I'm constantly using the "provoke rebels" tool to ensure that they pop up between my wars instead of during them and in provinces where I already have a waiting army that therefore gets any terrain defensive bonus. Rebel management is an area in which I am far superior to the AI. Just like all other areas.

The "boring no-brain stuff" is neither if you want to truly optimize your results. It's only boring and no-brain if you're happy with mediocre to bad play.

[bri]

Originally posted by Demien:

I'm just saying I like the challenging part of EU4 and we could use some automation on the boring no-brain stuff.

By the time there is a lot of "boring no-brain stuff" there's very little, if any, "challenging part" left and it's time to restart...