Ottomans are completely broken in 1.35

[sgh2000]

Title says it all. Year is 1520 and I am a very strong France (owns all of Burgundy and Catalonia as well as parts of Ireland, with Savoy, Venice, Milan as vassals with all their cores plus Naples as a PU with Sicily and Sardinia) with a very strong ally PLC (taken parts of Muscovy, Baltic, and Silesia) and i declared on the Ottomans who were on military tech 9 to my 11.

The Ottomans had an absolutely ridiculous 225k at the start of the war in 1520. The combined armies came to be about 250k vs 250k with a massive tech advantage on my end. I simply don't understand how you're going to give the Ottomans 225k in ground troops because of their ideas so early as well as somehow having the economy to field that army plus 50k mercs on top of that without going into debt and then sitting at 0 manpower for a solid 5 years of war without ever actually losing any of your army despite taking several major battles with major "losses". Also on top of all that, they had just declared war on Austria with Hungary just before I declared on them. So it was probably something approaching 400k vs 250k with a massive tech advantage at the start. Its as if they just have an infinite pool of manpower to magically draw from while having an of equal size to the number 2 and 4 great powers COMBINED and all to top it off, those troops are basically equivalent in combat ability to Prussian space marines. And all this in 1520. The war with Austria ended with them basically annexing like half of Hungary and the war with me led to about a 50% peace deal with them taking all of my Balkan possessions from Venice as well as half of Naples.

I thought I should go ahead and get a pretty quick start on the Ottomans to prevent them from getting too strong. Little did I know that the game is basically rigged for the Ottomans to win every single war they fight no matter what. Honestly if the AI just ignored AE, they might be able to do a world conquest by like 1700 as the Ottomans. They could probably take on all of the coalitions and not even break a sweat.

[Marquoz]

None of this is true. Here's a screenshot from my current Russia campaign:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2973431691

I'm about to defeat the Ottomans for the fourth time. They're allied to Hormuz, my next target. I've crushed them in three previous wars, ripping away dozens of provinces and taking about 10,000 ducats in the process. They're no tougher now than in previous patches. I've wiped them completely off of the map dozens (maybe hundreds) of times over the past ten years. In an earlier achievement run in this patch (All Blue, as Portugal), I annexed every bit of their land.

You need to learn how to fight well, how to make good alliances, and when and when not to attack. If you have no pressing reason to, don't. Grow elsewhere and hit them later. Any skilled player can out blob and then crush the AI 100% of the time. If you do need to fight them early on (you share a border, for example), then learn the combat system, get good allies, and beat them down.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by samhiatt2000:

Its as if they just have an infinite pool of manpower to magically draw from while having an of equal size to the number 2 and 4 great powers COMBINED and all to top it off, those troops are basically equivalent in combat ability to Prussian space marines.

To add to my previous post, many players think the Ottomans have some magic manpower cheat, but it's not true. They just know how to use the tools the game gives them, tools the player has as well. They hire mercs, going deep into debt to do so if necessary. They slacken recruitment. They build barracks. They make use of normal replenishment. The only thing the Ottomans can do that you as another nation cannot is create Janissaries. You can easily beat them at every aspect of warfare if you put in the effort necessary to understand the system.

[Kapika96]

No, they're not.

They're probably stronger in player hands than they were before, but they're not any better in AI hands than before. It's not anymore difficult to beat them than it was previously.

Sometimes they can end up exceptionally powerful, but it's pretty rare. They're usually manageable, especially if you take steps to prevent them from becoming strong. Not only that but they can quickly blow up during the late game now, even if they did get strong. Their disasters are incredibly unlikely to hit until the age of absolutism, but once they do hit the AI really can't deal with them well.

[DireStrait727]

with that tec advantages there should have been stack wipes right and left.
did you have generals, army tradition, prestige, army professionalism and the correct army composition? (there is always a certain combat width)

in 15xx you only use arti for sieges.
so with 27 combat width on mil tec 11 you should have 27 inf plus 6 cav, or 29 inf plus 4 cav. but i think cav is quite strong with france new missions and ideas(?)

additionally did you take mil ideas? if not and the ottobros have taken then you are in a disadvantage still.

do you go for attack or defend? use the correct ínf unit for that, they have different pips.

if you already got the balkan it would have made sense to defend the first 1 or 2 years on a mountain fort (scorch earth there so they wont send in new stacks), stack wipe the ♥♥♥♥ out of them and attack as soon as they are very outnumbered.

to have naval dominance in the mediterrainian sea would help to

so, sorry for your loss, but i think you made some mistakes and you are still a rookie to the game, which is totally fine. i am 1k hour into the game but i still learn. most complex game even though it does not look like it. there is so much you need to know about combat

its never been easier to defeat the ottomans and 1.35 is an absolute perfect DLC in my opinion since they become the sick man of europe in the late 16xx almost everytime and new great powers step in like spain which is an absolute gigachadlord

edit: on the right bottom corner there is something called statistics. you can compare ottobros army with yours , like morale and discipline. probably they were still stronger somehow (advisor, ideas, professionalism, tradition, etc) plus the janissaries. you can also share your save game here and i will tell you what went wrong.

hope that helps brother

[El Fabuloso]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

None of this is true. Here's a screenshot from my current Russia campaign:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2973431691

I'm about to defeat the Ottomans for the fourth time. They're allied to Hormuz, my next target. I've crushed them in three previous wars, ripping away dozens of provinces and taking about 10,000 ducats in the process. They're no tougher now than in previous patches. I've wiped them completely off of the map dozens (maybe hundreds) of times over the past ten years. In an earlier achievement run in this patch (All Blue, as Portugal), I annexed every bit of their land.

You need to learn how to fight well, how to make good alliances, and when and when not to attack. If you have no pressing reason to, don't. Grow elsewhere and hit them later. Any skilled player can out blob and then crush the AI 100% of the time. If you do need to fight them early on (you share a border, for example), then learn the combat system, get good allies, and beat them down.

How do you have 8 diplomats?

[RCMidas]

Guessing:

2 as a Base
2 from Diplomacy Idea Group
1 from Expansion Idea Group
1 from being an Empire
1 from Russia's new Shift of Administrative Focus mission bonus
1 from I can't think where right now

[Medicles]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Guessing:

2 as a Base
2 from Diplomacy Idea Group
1 from Expansion Idea Group
1 from being an Empire
1 from Russia's new Shift of Administrative Focus mission bonus
1 from I can't think where right now

The government reform that gives you +1 Diplomat and +5% to all estate loyalties.

[Marquoz]

Between the two of you, you've almost got it:

2 Base
1 from Empire
2 from Diplo idea group
1 from the policy you can enact when you complete Diplo and Admin
1 from the "Balance of Power" government reform
1 from the "Shift of Administrative Focus" mission bonus

I don't have the Expansion idea group diplomat yet--it's two ideas away. I'll have 9 soon.

Those of you who've read some of my prior posts know how much I love diplomats and how I micro them to prevent coalitions (in addition to claim generation, annexing vassals, and so on). I can never have too many diplomats.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

In my France game I had a weaker start than you but I managed to give my vassal Byzantium some of it's cores back around 1510.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918604716383010830/1105522417931145286/image.png (copy link URL and paste in browser to see.)

Pic related is the province history and nation history to prove it. This was an Iron Man game too. Despite the recent patch, the Ottoman's still are pretty easy to beat if you build up a decent navy or are able to ally Venice. Maybe focus more on military ideas or try to crack the Ottoman yolk earlier. Frankly I didn't touch the Ottoman's much after I conquered my vassals cores and I still managed to bully them around.

If anything France is OP in this patch, I'm currently the HRE Emperor, Head Of The Catholic Church, and the number one GP. All of this was done by the 1550s.

[RCMidas]

Military ideas are subpar. Diplomatic and Influence will serve you better because they will make allies easier to get, vassals easier to keep, and enemies easier to be beaten by your expendable and replaceable allies and vassals whilst you focus on the actual goals of the war.

[Hellenic Born]

Its certainly broken if you start as byzantium. They either attack you immediately or you go broke or they atack the siege on gelibolu while (if ally) skenderberg runs arround like a chicken and hides in the far most place basicaly he starts sieging one place than he brakes up goes other side of the map, most favorable australia than start sieging than brakes up and goes to the next corner of tghe map, most preferably to alpha centaury.

[shaytan]

you guys keep playing the early game while they are supposed to be op, and never play past 1600s,what did u expect ?

[Hellenic Born]

Originally posted by samok:

you guys keep playing the early game while they are supposed to be op, and never play past 1600s,what did u expect ?

A game that does not cheat

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by samok:

you guys keep playing the early game while they are supposed to be op, and never play past 1600s,what did u expect ?

I expect to be able to crush the Ottomans as any nation in any year. And I do.

[Black_Rat]

Originally posted by Hellenic Born:

Originally posted by samok:

you guys keep playing the early game while they are supposed to be op, and never play past 1600s,what did u expect ?

A game that does not cheat

well then congratulations, you found it. All "cheats" the AI has are very widely known and explained. Any further "cheating" you think is happening is a false perception.