How to properly develop a country?

[Rutiger Murray]

Hello everyone, I'm back to playing EU4 because I read that they fixed some problems caused by the Leviathan expansion and right now the game feels solid as far as I know which isn't much either.

I'm playing a multiplayer game with friends and one of them has developed the country very effectively allowing him to earn a lot of money and boost monarch points with +3 advisors early game.

My friend doesn't know how to explain to me how he develops provinces, so I came here to ask if there is any tutorial or some important concept to take into account to improve this aspect of my gameplay.

Thank you all in advance.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

There's a lot that can be said on this subject, so rather than try to type it all out here I'll link you a video that explains most of the mechanics and modifiers fairly well. Do be aware that the video is a bit outdated at this point; some modifiers for development cost have been adjusted or removed entirely in more recent versions of the game (in particular the Economic Ideas finisher and the policy between Economic and Quantity), while some new ones have been added since the video was made (the Expand Infrastructure button).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liwkjhRm7Es

I should also inform you, as several other people here will no doubt mention, all of this advice (and the overuse of the word "overpowered" within the video) is geared solely towards PvP in multiplayer games. When it comes to single-player, or really in any campaign where you're only going to be fighting against AI-controlled countries, it's widely considered a complete waste of monarch points to develop your own provinces outside of very specific circumstances. You generally get more value out of using those points by conquering land from other nations, spending Admin points to core new provinces for yourself while spending Diplo points to integrate subject nations that you've given other provinces to.

As the AI is woefully poor at scaling their countries effectively or taking advantage of battle mechanics compared to a competent player, it's easy to outpace them simply through raw conquest, rendering such things as efficient development or military quality boosts unnecessary against them. Against another player who has as much or more knowledge of the game as you, however, this is usually not the case, which is why scaling yourself in this manner is so popular in multiplayer. Wars between players tend to be very long, drawn-out affairs of "How many men can I possibly squeeze out of my country to keep on going until one side is finally defeated", whereas fighting against the AI is more often a case of "how hard can I club all these seals without getting myself overwhelmed by rebels or facing off against a coalition of half the known world".

[Rutiger Murray]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

There's a lot that can be said on this subject, so rather than try to type it all out here I'll link you a video that explains most of the mechanics and modifiers fairly well. Do be aware that the video is a bit outdated at this point; some modifiers for development cost have been adjusted or removed entirely in more recent versions of the game (in particular the Economic Ideas finisher and the policy between Economic and Quantity), while some new ones have been added since the video was made (the Expand Infrastructure button).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liwkjhRm7Es

I should also inform you, as several other people here will no doubt mention, all of this advice (and the overuse of the word "overpowered" within the video) is geared solely towards PvP in multiplayer games. When it comes to single-player, or really in any campaign where you're only going to be fighting against AI-controlled countries, it's widely considered a complete waste of monarch points to develop your own provinces outside of very specific circumstances. You generally get more value out of using those points by conquering land from other nations, spending Admin points to core new provinces for yourself while spending Diplo points to integrate subject nations that you've given other provinces to.

As the AI is woefully poor at scaling their countries effectively or taking advantage of battle mechanics compared to a competent player, it's easy to outpace them simply through raw conquest, rendering such things as efficient development or military quality boosts unnecessary against them. Against another player who has as much or more knowledge of the game as you, however, this is usually not the case, which is why scaling yourself in this manner is so popular in multiplayer. Wars between players tend to be very long, drawn-out affairs of "How many men can I possibly squeeze out of my country to keep on going until one side is finally defeated", whereas fighting against the AI is more often a case of "how hard can I club all these seals without getting myself overwhelmed by rebels or facing off against a coalition of half the known world".

Thank you very much for the answer and the explanation of the development in PvP and PvE, I'm really not very into PvP since when I play multiplayer it's with friends and always as allies, I'll watch the video and see if I can improve my gameplay in this sense, although Don't play PVP, I'm sure I'll discover something interesting, thanks!

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

I should also inform you, as several other people here will no doubt mention, all of this advice (and the overuse of the word "overpowered" within the video) is geared solely towards PvP in multiplayer games. When it comes to single-player, or really in any campaign where you're only going to be fighting against AI-controlled countries, it's widely considered a complete waste of monarch points to develop your own provinces outside of very specific circumstances.

This. There are only two good reasons to develop provinces in single player:

1) An estate agenda or mission requires you to do so
2) You're forcing an institution to spawn

The rest of the time, conquer. It's vastly more efficient against the AI.

[clif9710]

This puzzles me: "My friend doesn't know how to explain to me how he develops provinces"

If he can't explain it, how can he consistently do it? Perhaps he doesn't want to share his knowledge?

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Originally posted by clif9710:

This puzzles me: "My friend doesn't know how to explain to me how he develops provinces"

If he can't explain it, how can he consistently do it? Perhaps he doesn't want to share his knowledge?

I assumed it was more of a case of saying something like "just activate Encourage Development in states that have Prosperity" to a newer player who doesn't know what either of those are, and not having time to explain it because the time's still moving forward.

[RCMidas]

It might also be that he literally doesn't know how to condense down all of the information in a way that readily makes sense. What is an edict? What is a state? What is prosperity? What is the relationship here? Why that edict? Which trade goods matter? Which province modifiers matter? Did I forget to mention about it being province-specific? Did I say which is the better mana point to use for development? Or when in the game this can change? Why is tax income better in the early game? Why is production income better in the late game? Should you develop for manpower? Should you remain ahead in military technology instead?

And the list goes on and on and on. Teaching is f***ing difficult.

[Rutiger Murray]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Originally posted by clif9710:

This puzzles me: "My friend doesn't know how to explain to me how he develops provinces"

If he can't explain it, how can he consistently do it? Perhaps he doesn't want to share his knowledge?

I assumed it was more of a case of saying something like "just activate Encourage Development in states that have Prosperity" to a newer player who doesn't know what either of those are, and not having time to explain it because the time's still moving forward.

Accurate

[Metalogic]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

I should also inform you, as several other people here will no doubt mention, all of this advice (and the overuse of the word "overpowered" within the video) is geared solely towards PvP in multiplayer games. When it comes to single-player, or really in any campaign where you're only going to be fighting against AI-controlled countries, it's widely considered a complete waste of monarch points to develop your own provinces outside of very specific circumstances.

This. There are only two good reasons to develop provinces in single player:

1) An estate agenda or mission requires you to do so
2) You're forcing an institution to spawn

The rest of the time, conquer. It's vastly more efficient against the AI.

I can think of at least five other reasons:

3) You want to to be able to upgrade a Centre of Trade to level 2 (requires 10 Dev) or level 3 (requires 25 Dev)

4) You have Orthodox religion and a little short of the 30 Dev points required to be able to consecrate a Metropolitan in that state

5) You're a little short of the required Dev to be able to make a culture accepted or to be able to culture shift to a desired culture, but could do so if you develop some provinces of that culture

6) You have been able to stack national ideas (e.g. Tuscany's) and other modifiers that give you large discounts to Development cost and have lots of spare monarch points that would otherwise be wasted if nearing your MP cap (e.g. if very ahead in technology and don't have idea group slots to fill)

7) It's a gold-producing provinces (or cloves, or other high value trade good province)

There are other situations too, but those are the main ones

[Fyre]

Son of a gun... yeah, when people say 'don't be surprised when 1500 hours into the game you're still learning new things'- I evidently have been living in a constant state of forgetting the 'expand infrastructure' button exists. It's really just knowing all of the modifiers for development cost (there's so many that are easy to forget e.g. prosperity, centers of trade, stupid expand infrastructure.)

[RCMidas]

You can gain more mercantile benefits by spending those points on conquest rather than developing for a CoT.

Metropolitans are useless. In fact, having one generates nothing but negative or neutral events. And I do mean nothing but.

The culture point is a good one, but highly specific. Again, conquest is usually better.

If you've been expanding properly, you shouldn't be approaching a mana cap, reductions to development cost be damned. There are vassals that need integrating, annexed lands that need coring. If you remain stagnant, this will happen, but then you must be careful of the AI getting stronger than you.

Gold production is a good exception yes, but remember the issue with higher production development translating to a higher chance for that development to be HALVED upon gold depletion. That's a LOT of dip points wasted whenever that happens, and you could do better financially by spending those on integrating vassals to eat up more territory and strengthen yourself across the board.

[Marquoz]

Originally posted by Metalogic:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

This. There are only two good reasons to develop provinces in single player:

1) An estate agenda or mission requires you to do so
2) You're forcing an institution to spawn

The rest of the time, conquer. It's vastly more efficient against the AI.

I can think of at least five other reasons:

3) You want to to be able to upgrade a Centre of Trade to level 2 (requires 10 Dev) or level 3 (requires 25 Dev)

4) You have Orthodox religion and a little short of the 30 Dev points required to be able to consecrate a Metropolitan in that state

5) You're a little short of the required Dev to be able to make a culture accepted or to be able to culture shift to a desired culture, but could do so if you develop some provinces of that culture

6) You have been able to stack national ideas (e.g. Tuscany's) and other modifiers that give you large discounts to Development cost and have lots of spare monarch points that would otherwise be wasted if nearing your MP cap (e.g. if very ahead in technology and don't have idea group slots to fill)

7) It's a gold-producing provinces (or cloves, or other high value trade good province)

There are other situations too, but those are the main ones

None of those reasons are good enough to waste monarch points on, unless a mission requires them:

3) I never upgrade centers of trade. I conquer every single province of nodes I care about instead

4) The payoff for doing this is far too low to bother.

5) Same for this. I'll be conquering several dozen cultures. If one is barely short of acceptance, oh well, too bad for it. A bigger one is coming soon.

6) It's still cheaper to conquer and core (especially with Admin) or vassalize and annex (especially with Admin and Influence). And you will never hit the MP cap if you're expanding quickly. You can burn endless Admin points on conquest, Diplo on vassal annexation, and Mil on generals.

7) Again, I never bother. Gold burnout is real, and a giant waste of points. And using mana to expand hurts your enemies and helps you, while developing just helps you. By conquering, you also increase your stranglehold on trade in nodes you care about. That's a much bigger economic payoff in the long run.