Why does Lithuania have so much development?

[i love my girlfriend]

In EU4, development is supposed to represent population. This is why big cities like Constantinople, Rome, Paris, London, etc. have high development and why uncolonized provinces in Siberia and the Americas have the minimum amount, 3, and why it takes longer to culture convert provinces with high development (more people = more time to get rid of the old culture)

My question is, why does Lithuania have so much development then?

"The combined population of Poland and GDL (Grand Duchy of Lithuania) in 1493 is estimated as 7.5 million, of whom 3.25 million were Poles, 3.75 million were Ruthenians, and 0.5 million were Lithuanians."[en.wikipedia.org] This means that the population of Lithuania circa mid 1400s was a little over 4 million people. About the population of a fairly large city in modern times. It pales in comparison to the populations of other regions at the time like China (over 100 million), India (101 million), Japan and France (both 15 million). But of course, Lithuania is the 3rd most developed country in the world, implying that it is the 3rd most populous. This is bull. France has double its population yet less development.

Because of this huge amount of development, this means the Lithuania, and by extension, the PLC, become ridiculously overpowered. Sure, with planning, preparation, and strong allies, a player Muscovy/Russia could eventually beat the PLC, but an AI or player PLC will absolutely plow through Russia. Seriously, for historical accuracy and to make the game more balanced, Lithuania's development should be reduced by at least 100.

[Exarch_Alpha]

No. Muscowy has easy expansion options, they don´t need to nerf Lithuania. By ideas and manpower increase the ruskies are perfectly capable to do their stuff. So are ottomans.

Mayve if you play Mazovia, then lol. Or Moldova.

[i love my girlfriend]

Originally posted by Chad:

Well, I guess you don't know that but Lithuania already got significantly nerfed... They used to have about a third more developement in the previous patches (I think the switched it in 1.15), meaning that Muscovy would never form Russia and Poland was basicaly the eastern France.

What's their development now?

[i love my girlfriend]

Originally posted by Chad:

They switched from 343 development to 276 development. I've also read in the patchontes somewhere that france got a development buff, I'm currently checking on the exact numbers.

Alright. Disregard this post then. I didn't realize they got nerfed. 276 sounds reasonable. Maybe a little high, but better than the uber amount that made them into pink france

[Kastuvas]

i dont understand why they nerfed lithuania but kept polands development same. Poland with its op event is the reason why PLC is super strong, nerfing lithuania even more doesnt make sense to me since poland forms PLC 95% of the time.

[i love my girlfriend]

Originally posted by Stasiukas:

i dont understand why they nerfed lithuania but kept polands development same. Poland with its op event is the reason why PLC is super strong, nerfing lithuania even more doesnt make sense to me since poland forms PLC 95% of the time.

I went through the game files and Poland chooses "We need a Jagiellon" 75% of the time, but it sure seems like its 100%. I've only seen them choose "Let us appoint a local noble" one time, and of course that was the one playthrough where I needed them to be really strong (Byzantium)

[Mr. Cobb]

Originally posted by Shibes:

Originally posted by Stasiukas:

i dont understand why they nerfed lithuania but kept polands development same. Poland with its op event is the reason why PLC is super strong, nerfing lithuania even more doesnt make sense to me since poland forms PLC 95% of the time.

I went through the game files and Poland chooses "We need a Jagiellon" 75% of the time, but it sure seems like its 100%. I've only seen them choose "Let us appoint a local noble" one time, and of course that was the one playthrough where I needed them to be really strong (Byzantium)

It seems like it's been happening less with the new patch. In fact oddly enough in this play through that I am on in my better than Napoleon run as France, Poland inherited Lithuania for some reason, and the Commonwealth didn't form. First time I have ever seen that in 400 hours of gameplay.

[Kastuvas]

Originally posted by Mr. Cobb:

Originally posted by Shibes:

I went through the game files and Poland chooses "We need a Jagiellon" 75% of the time, but it sure seems like its 100%. I've only seen them choose "Let us appoint a local noble" one time, and of course that was the one playthrough where I needed them to be really strong (Byzantium)

It seems like it's been happening less with the new patch. In fact oddly enough in this play through that I am on in my better than Napoleon run as France, Poland inherited Lithuania for some reason, and the Commonwealth didn't form. First time I have ever seen that in 400 hours of gameplay.

Poland likely lacked Marienburg or Danzig as core provinces cause those are required to form CW

[Mr. Cobb]

Originally posted by Stasiukas:

Originally posted by Mr. Cobb:

It seems like it's been happening less with the new patch. In fact oddly enough in this play through that I am on in my better than Napoleon run as France, Poland inherited Lithuania for some reason, and the Commonwealth didn't form. First time I have ever seen that in 400 hours of gameplay.

Poland likely lacked Marienburg or Danzig as core provinces cause those are required to form CW

Ahh that makes sense. For some reason I have noticed that they force the TO release Danzig sometimes in peace deals with this new patch, but have no idea why.

[i love my girlfriend]

Originally posted by Mr. Cobb:

Originally posted by Shibes:

I went through the game files and Poland chooses "We need a Jagiellon" 75% of the time, but it sure seems like its 100%. I've only seen them choose "Let us appoint a local noble" one time, and of course that was the one playthrough where I needed them to be really strong (Byzantium)

It seems like it's been happening less with the new patch. In fact oddly enough in this play through that I am on in my better than Napoleon run as France, Poland inherited Lithuania for some reason, and the Commonwealth didn't form. First time I have ever seen that in 400 hours of gameplay.

The probability hasn't changed. Its still 75% and 25%. Just went through the game files. (If you want to look, go to "flavorPOL" and use ctrl+f to find "Election of Kasimir".

[i love my girlfriend]

Originally posted by Ultrix Prime:

I do not think you're looking at 1.16 or higher where Lithuania lost 70 or so development.


In any event, the answer you are seeking is game balance.

"Historical realism is never a valid argument." - Wiz who was dev team lead and stated this many times.

Johan the product designer has done so as well.

The developers do not take change requests from these forums. They have their own sub forum for that.

Good luck.

If you cared to read the rest of the thread, you would notice that someone already pointed this out and that I took back what I said in the original post.

[Venboven]

I know this is an ancient thread, but while I was Googling trying to find out why Lithuania is so undeveloped in the current version of the game, I came across your post from 2016 saying it's overdeveloped.

I know EU4 was basically a different game entirely in 2016, so I was wondering, did they change Lithuania's development? Did Lithuania used to be more developed?

Either they nerfed Lithuania's development, or Lithuania's size is just so large that even 100 3-dev provinces add up to overpowered development? I can't figure out which.

So, oldtimer, now I'm curious. Has Lithuania's development changed since you played the game in 2016?

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Venboven:

I know this is an ancient thread, but while I was Googling trying to find out why Lithuania is so undeveloped in the current version of the game, I came across your post from 2016 saying it's overdeveloped.

I know EU4 was basically a different game entirely in 2016, so I was wondering, did they change Lithuania's development? Did Lithuania used to be more developed?

Either they nerfed Lithuania's development, or Lithuania's size is just so large that even 100 3-dev provinces add up to overpowered development? I can't figure out which.

So, oldtimer, now I'm curious. Has Lithuania's development changed since you played the game in 2016?

Dude, you can literally just look at their development ingame and compare it to the mentioned 276...

No need to necro here...

[Venboven]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Venboven:

I know this is an ancient thread, but while I was Googling trying to find out why Lithuania is so undeveloped in the current version of the game, I came across your post from 2016 saying it's overdeveloped.

I know EU4 was basically a different game entirely in 2016, so I was wondering, did they change Lithuania's development? Did Lithuania used to be more developed?

Either they nerfed Lithuania's development, or Lithuania's size is just so large that even 100 3-dev provinces add up to overpowered development? I can't figure out which.

So, oldtimer, now I'm curious. Has Lithuania's development changed since you played the game in 2016?

Dude, you can literally just look at their development ingame and compare it to the mentioned 276...

No need to necro here...

Ah. I should really read all the comments before I do this sort of thing. Thanks.

[Preacher]

NEEEEECRROOOOOOOOOOOO REEEEEEEEEE

[The Dude67]

Originally posted by Venboven:

I know this is an ancient thread, but while I was Googling trying to find out why Lithuania is so undeveloped in the current version of the game, I came across your post from 2016 saying it's overdeveloped.

I know EU4 was basically a different game entirely in 2016, so I was wondering, did they change Lithuania's development? Did Lithuania used to be more developed?

Either they nerfed Lithuania's development, or Lithuania's size is just so large that even 100 3-dev provinces add up to overpowered development? I can't figure out which.

So, oldtimer, now I'm curious. Has Lithuania's development changed since you played the game in 2016?

NECROOO